pne | Random thought: Kris and variants

I have a friend named Kerstin- native right here in 'ol US of A. I also have an aunt named Kerstin, but she was born and raised in Germany.

Mostly I prefer the Cr- spelling of Cristina. How do you feel about Katherine vs. Catherine? Katrina vs. Catrina (vs. Catriona, the Scottish spelling which is pronounced the same and trips me up every time)?

Mostly I prefer the Cr- spelling of Cristina.

Is that the Spanish spelling?

I… darn, my English has left me. "I've hardly never seen that spelling"? "I haven't seen that spelling hardly ever"? "I've nearly never seen that spelling"? I hope you know what I mean; how does one say it in proper English?

How do you feel about Katherine vs. Catherine?

I feel that "Katherine" is unusual (and perhaps not preferable) but not ugly.

For an English name, that is. The German variants I'd expect to see written with K- (common ones being "Katharina, Kathrin, Katrin"), and initial C- on a German name seems pretentious and/or strange to me. (As for -th- vs -t-, I think either is fine.)

OTOH, "Carina" I've only ever seen spelled with a C- even in Germany, though I'd expect "Karin" and "Karen" (less common) to be spelled with a K-.

I think I'd expect K- on "Kathleen", though, in English. Also always K- on "Kate" and "Katie" even if they belong to a "Catherine".

Katrina vs. Catrina

I haven't seen either name much. In German, I'd go for K-; in English I suppose I could take either.

(vs. Catriona, the Scottish spelling which is pronounced the same and trips me up every time)?

And it's apparently Caitriona in Irish, though I'm not sure whether it's also pronounced the same. A quick Google search implies that it is.

I knew an American Katrina once (I think that's how she spelled her name) whose name I'd occasionally write Caitríona to annoy her (though I'm not sure whether the accent is warranted or correct).

I feel that "Katherine" is unusual (and perhaps not preferable) but not ugly.

Oh, and I think that "Katharine" is even more unusual, though I've seen it.

I would say, "I hardly ever see that spelling."

I have a cousin named Katharine and I know a friend of the family named Catherine -- the various spellings make it very difficult to know which to use when you're just meeting someone.

Not to mention that Cathryn and Kathryn are pretty common here (in the US) as well.

Is that the Spanish spelling?

Spanish and Italian. Perhaps other places as well. And

marikochan is correct, it's "I've hardly ever seen that spelling." (Or "I've almost never..." but that's less common.)

Gareth and I have this discussion all the time re: possible kids' names (though hopefully that's several years in the future) because he likes Scottish and Welsh names (his and his sister's names are Welsh; their dad is Welsh but the family always lived in Scotland) and (although I like Scottish names) I refuse to give my children a name that's difficult to spell and/or pronounce.

I told him we can name a daughter Catriona if he accepts that everyone will pronounce the O and we will not correct them. It didn't go over too well. (He has a cousin named Katrina for that very reason; his aunt and uncle live in London and apparently English people find "Catriona" as difficult as Americans would.)

he likes Scottish and Welsh names

I like (some) Welsh names, too; for example, "Meredith" was a favourite of mine for quite some time.

I refuse to give my children a name that's difficult to spell and/or pronounce.

However, this meant that such a name would not really fly in Germany. Unfortunately. (I'm even having second thoughts about "Amy", since it's often mangled into "Emmy" or "Ahmi" or "Émi".)

"Meredith" is lovely. I really like it, and it's common enough for people to have heard of it (unlike "Gareth," which is funny because it's *so* common in the UK) but not so common that there's one in every family.

G's sister is named Bronwen. The only other Welsh names I know off the top of my head are Gwyneth and Megan (quoth my [US/UK dual citizen] friend Megan: "I get really tired of everyone assuming it's Irish. It's Welsh! Welsh!").

Names are such funny things, especially when you consider all the names in a family. Gareth's [Scottish] mum's brothers are Bruce, Iain and Hamish (he doesn't find this as amusing as I do); his [Welsh] dad's brother and sister are Glyn and Carys. Lots of pride in one's heritage going on there!

Then there's me and my sister, Bethany and Susanna. (My mom says it's 'cause our last name was so short.)

My wife's Swedish-born aunt Kristina has a nanny for her son who's named Karina. I guess that's what's typical there.

On the one hand, I'm used to the Ch- beginning, having lived in Canada all my life.

On the other hand, my wife is of Swedish origin, and we named our second daughter Kristina, in part after a favourite aunt. And now I can never think of her as a Christina. (We mostly call her Tina, but when I think "/kris'ti:n@/", I think "Kristina" with her, never "Christina".)

(To be honest, when I think of "Christina", I think of this gorgeous girl who was in my grade through junior high and high school. But I was the broken-glasses socially-inept nerdy geek, so asking her out was never an option. Sigh.)

Well, thanks a lot for your 2 cents, but I quite like my name. I'm very glad that my parents chose to christen me Kristina using the Scandinavian spelling, as all through my school life there were loads of Christinas, Christine and Christianes about, and I was not in so much danger of being confused.

However, I do think it is rather derogatory of you to call it "ugly" and "wrong". A person's name, like skin colour or sex, is something that they did not choose.

Anyhow, as for the Scandinavian way of spelling the names: It's a system of spelling that chose an unambiguous letter-to-sound-relationship, and that is, to my mind, not such a bad idea. The "Ch"-spelling, for all that I know, originated in the transliteration of Greek and would originally signify the /x/ sound at the end of German "bach", which is not what my name begins with.

But still, thanks for sharing.

A person's name, like skin colour or sex, is something that they did not choose.

Though unlike those, it's something their parents chose, so there was a choice involved. If a child is called Stupidmoron, then that's not an accident of genetics.

Anyhow, as for the Scandinavian way of spelling the names: It's a system of spelling that chose an unambiguous letter-to-sound-relationship, and that is, to my mind, not such a bad idea.

Fair enough. But English spelling is not completely unphonetic, either, and initial k- is typically used only before front vowels (i, e); before consonants and back vowels (a, o, u), I would expect c-. Having a k- there looks awkward to me. (I also think that "Krispy Kremes" looks really strange, for example.)

The "Ch"-spelling, for all that I know, originated in the transliteration of Greek

*nods* That's what I've heard, too -- Romans borrowed Greek words with chi in them with a "ch" spelling.

and would originally signify the /x/ sound at the end of German "bach"

Depends on what time period you're talking about; as far as I know, chi in Attic Greek represented an aspirated /k/ sound (as "k" at the beginning of English words such as "key", where the "k" is accompanied by a puff of air), which justifies the spelling of "ch" in Latin, since "c" is /k/ and "h" is /h/. (Similarly for the spellings "ph", which was aspirated "p" -- /p_h/ -- as in English "puff" in Ancient Greek, and didn't change to /f/ until later, or "th", which was aspirated /t_h/ originally and later /T/, i.e. the sound th- in English "thick".)

So how are they spelled in Germany? (Christina, Christopher, etc.)

Like that -- with Chr-. Christopher isn't terribly popular; Christoph is a more common variation. There are also a fair number of girls called Christina or Christiane and boys called Christian, and some girls (well, mostly older women) called Christel or Christa.

Going purely by German spelling conventions, I suppose initial K- would be appropriate; I presume that Ch- was retained because that's the usual spelling used in "Christus" (taken, no doubt, from the Latin convention of spelling borrowings with Greek chi with "ch").

The names Kirsten and Kerstin (and, more rarely, Kirstin) are also occasionally, but not frequently, seen; I think those are Scandinavian forms. (As with Karin and Karen, variants of Catherine, I believe, for which the most common German form is Kat(h)arina or Kat(h)rin.)

My mom was named Kristine because her German father wanted a "German spelling".

It's funny that you say Christel and Christa are mostly older women -- here they're mostly kids/teens. Though Christa is typically spelled strangely, like Chrysta or Crysta. That's what I don't like about naming (in America). People are always trying to come up with strange or downright stupid spellings to make their kids "different".

My mom was named Kristine because her German father wanted a "German spelling".

I'm not sure whether I've seen a German with that spelling, though a quick google does turn up a number of them when restricted to the .de top-level domain. One site (on baby names) mentions that it's a "Swedish variant of Christine".

It's funny that you say Christel and Christa are mostly older women -- here they're mostly kids/teens.

Though I wonder whether the Christels in the US are from "Crystal" or from the "Christ-" root underlying the other names. (Or both?)

I think "Christel" was, in origin, a diminutive; the -el ending is used in some parts of Germany to form diminutives.

Though Christa is typically spelled strangely, like Chrysta or Crysta. That's what I don't like about naming (in America). People are always trying to come up with strange or downright stupid spellings to make their kids "different".

*nods* I tend to view Kristophers as product of this, and it kind of bothers me, too. Just as, say, "Madycyn" or "M'lyssa" or "Steffinny" would bother me.

Though I wonder whether the Christels in the US are from "Crystal" or from the "Christ-" root underlying the other names. (Or both?)

I was referring specifically to Christel (which, at least IME, is pronounced differently from Crystal), though I suppose they could both have the same origin.

Speaking of horrible spellings, I found the Baby's Named a Bad, Bad Thing website really amusing. ;)

There are certainly some doozies on that website.

Random thought: Kris and variants

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K vs C

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Welsh names

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Christinas and Christophers in Germany

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Kristine

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Baby's Named a Bad, Bad Thing