pne | entstehen

Today, when I heard someone on the bus say, „noch nicht einmal entstanden“, I thought about the German verb entstehen.

I couldn't think of a good English translation for it—but then I realised that Klingon chen is probably a pretty good fit! Yay for multiple languages :)

The Klingon Dictionary entry for chen reads build up, take form, equals (mathematically), by the way. I might also translate entstehen as “arise” or “come into being”.

An example of its use is in chemistry: „Bei dieser Reaktion entsteht Wasserstoff“ is “This reaction produces hydrogen” or, a bit more literally, “During this reaction, hydrogen comes into being/arises/takes form”.

In my experience, Klingon chen is used more often in the causative form chenmoH, which is glossed form, make, create and could probably be used for “produce” in the above sentence.

And that made me think about the German causative.

Since stehen “stand” has the causative stellen “place, put, set”, entstehen should have the causative entstellen, ĉu ne? But that means “disfigure, deface” :)

That made me think of other compounds of stehen, and erstehen came to mind. I thought at first that this was a fairly rare word, but that’s only in the intransitive sense “to rise again (as by resurrection)”—the transitive sense “to obtain through purchase”, while a bit formal IMO, is not really rare. (I wonder how those two senses got to be related.)

When I looked it entstehen in the dictionary, I found it interesting that one of the translations given was the passive of a causative; perhaps this inchoative meaning is comparatively unusual so there aren’t really good synonyms which one could use to define the word. (It said, zu bestehen, zu sein beginnen; geschaffen, hervorgerufen werden “begin to be; be created or called forth”.)

Bestehen is also an interesting word, with several senses that one would probably translate by rather different words in English: 1) exist, be present; 2) consist of, be made of (a certain material); 3) succeed (in an examination); 4) insist.

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In my experience, Klingon chen is used more often in the causative form chenmoH, which is glossed form, make, create and could probably be used for “produce” in the above sentence.

I think that has as much to do with the English-speakers who speak Klingon as it does with the Klingon canon.

For my part, I think the canon we have of chen in arithmetic (like cha'logh boq'egh wej; chen jav two times three equals six) would be perfectly suited to a chemistry phrase like this. I have no problem with, say, baS ngoStaHvIS pey, chen bIQSIp while acid dissolves metal, hydrogen is formed, and in fact I find it more economical than doing a recast with chenmoH, which would require an awkward -ghach-ing of a verb: bIQSIp chenmoH pey baS ngoStaHghach the dissolution of metal by acid produces hydrogen.

I know that has nothing to do with the German entstehen, but there you have it. :)

In my experience, Klingon chen is used more often in the causative form chenmoH, which is glossed form, make, create and could probably be used for “produce” in the above sentence.

I think that has as much to do with the English-speakers who speak Klingon as it does with the Klingon canon.

Oh, quite.

Probably the best English translation is "makes"?

I know that hacer (es) and fazer (pt) and faire (fr) all come out to make or do in English, at best, but there is often confusion.

Perhaps there is some relation there.

Um mais um faz dois / One plus one makes two.
Uno mś uno hace dos.
Un et un fait deux.

Probably the best English translation is "makes"?

No, you're thinking in causatives again.

The Klingon sentence

ubykhlives quoted translates idiomatically as "two times three equals six" but more directly as "three allies with itself twice; six takes shape/comes into being/arises".

German entstehen and Klingon chen is the un-causative version of make, produce, create -- it's to "make" roughly as "fall" is to "fell" or "learn" is to "teach".

Hmmmm....

How about "becomes"?

Intransitive "becomes" sounds odd to me, though.

"During this reaction, hydrogen becomes."

"On this site, a skyscraper will become."

"How does rain become?"

Do those sound natural to you?

Yeah, English isn't too good with reflexive verbs, either.
I could say that in any other of my languages and have it come out fine...

Como se forma hidrogêno? (pt)

Comment l'hydrogène se forme-t-il ? (fr)

How does hydrogen form itself?
How is hydrogen formed?

I suppose one could say "come into being", or some such thing, but, it's not very efficient.

"erstehen [...] “to rise again (as by resurrection)”"

Isn't that "auferstehen"?

More commonly, yes.

But I've also heard (for example) "Christ ist erstanden!". (Apparently also the name of various pieces of music.)

entstehen

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I don't speak German or Klingon, but...

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Re: I don't speak German or Klingon, but...

becomes

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