Feedback on my journal and friends lists

[pne]

Poll ganked from ali_anarres and only slightly modifed.

Edit: In particular, where the poll says "this year", feel free to assume either 2003 or 2004; 2003 is probably more meaningful.

[Poll #234223]

Comments

[lovewithnoface.livejournal.com]

custom grounps used for posting?

About default views

[cadenzamuse.livejournal.com]

(And I think I forgot to say I don't use default views.)

I'm low-maintenance, friend-wise. I'm anti-friends' list drama--it's your journal! That means you do whatever you want to in it!

But I also pretty much dislike default views, because I feel like it's condescending to say "you can read my journal, I guess, but I'm above you and so I won't read yours." Especially when someone says something like, "I'll put you on trial on my default view, and then if your journal isn't interesting, I'll move you to the 'when I'm really bored' filter, which is everyone-but-default-and-communities." But it's still whoever's journal, so whatever. It's just not something I would do.

Based on this, with you, specifically, I'd be upset if I were on the "when I'm really bored" filter, because I like you. I trust you, quite a bit. And so I value your opinions and want to hear what you have to say. And if I were on the "when I'm really bored" filter, I would feel like a)you would never see what I had to say, so I would never hear from you (and we wouldn't have ten commentversations at once and have half my inbox be "Comment from pne", which is beside the point) and b)you didn't *want* to have opinions on what I had to say, and that would hurt.

But. Because I find what you have to say interesting and I like to talk to you, I would comment on your journal anyway and we'd probably interact some. And judging by the fact that I do hear from you, this isn't really a problem. So that's my $.04 (inflation, you see).

Re: About default views

[pne.livejournal.com]

(And I think I forgot to say I don't use default views.)

You know you can change your vote (http://www.livejournal.com/poll/?id=234223&mode=enter) in polls?

Time for bed now so I just glanced over what you said; I'll have to read it more carefully and give you a proper reply later (this might be Sunday or Monday as I'll be spending tomorrow at my family's house; apologies).

Re: About default views

[cadenzamuse.livejournal.com]

I did not know that, thank you! (So much I keep stumbling across that I didn't know...) And have fun with your family; there's no hurry! Thank you for taking your time and being thoughtful about things.

[bride.livejournal.com]

Where is this journal in your friends groups?

I don't use Default Views for reading.

I have a lot of Reading Groups. Two groups of humans, two groups of communities and one group of "announcie-news-ish-like" groups. None are the "default" or "more important" in some way than the other (except maybe the announcie one is less important than the others =), I just split everyone up so that no one gets pushed off the top 25 entries before I can read them. I just don't like having to hit "Previous" in the Friends View.

I write mostly public entries, but I have one Protected filter (which you are on) and a whole bunch of single-user groups for the times when I'm talking to one person individually (ie. to discuss someone's resumé or dream analyses where very personal issues are involved).

not in one or more custom groups

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

You're not on my "IRL" filter. For obvious reasons. And I mostly use that one to read (so I can, if I'm in a rush, just see what's up in the lives of my real-life friends, and not internet friends or communities), not to post to.

And each of my real-life friends has their own filter, so I can post to just certain people about certain things. The non-IRL friends are in two groups, unimaginatively labeled 1 and 2 based on how well I know and like them (and hence how much of myself I'm willing to share with them).

[pne.livejournal.com]

You know about using custom friends groups for posting (https://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=102), I presume?

Just like your friends list can be used as a watchlist or a trustlist, you can use custom friends groups as a sub-watchlist or a sub-trustlist. Or for both, though I don't have any custom friends groups I use for both purposes.

But, for example, I have a custom friends group for support chatter so that people who don't want to see that sort of thing don't see it on their friends list, and another one for stuff I only want a few people to know about, and so on.

(And then I have a number of custom friends groups I use for reading, e.g. one with support comms which aren't on my default view, or one for comic strip feeds.)

Or was your question something else?

Changing your answer in polls

[pne.livejournal.com]

There's always a time you come across something for the first time :) I think someone had to show me this as well.

In general, if you want to change your vote somehow, click on the poll number at the top of a poll, then on "Fill out Poll", and it'll bring you to a page with your votes which you can then change as you wish.

(Another thing I learned about polls which you may or may not know—if you want to see the results of a poll but don't want to vote, you can simply click on "Submit Poll" and thereafter your Friends Page or that entry will show the results as if you had actually answered questions; you don't need to fill out any of the fields.

If you want to fill out the poll later, you can still do so, as explained in the second paragraph of this reply.)

Re: About default views

[pne.livejournal.com]

But I also pretty much dislike default views, because I feel like it's condescending to say "you can read my journal, I guess, but I'm above you and so I won't read yours."

It depends. One problem, as I see it, is that LiveJournal doesn't currently have Watch lists and Trust lists but makes you use the Friends list for both.

So I may wish to trust someone without wanting to watch their journal; I feel the two are separate. So if I don't read their journal, it doesn't have to be because I think I'm above them; it may be that I don't find most of their journal interesting but still trust that person enough to read my friends-only posts, for example.

Especially when someone says something like, "I'll put you on trial on my default view, and then if your journal isn't interesting, I'll move you to the 'when I'm really bored' filter, which is everyone-but-default-and-communities."

We may have to agree to disagree on this one; I've indeed said that to at least one person who friended me.

I have difficulty keeping up with my friends list sometimes, and if I find I skip most of exampleusername's entries, I may remove him from my Default View. But again, just because I don't find his entries interesting doesn't mean I don't trust him, so I may take him off my DV rather than removing him from my friends list entirely.

I know that some people disagree, which is one reason I kept the "I'd rather not be on your friends list if I'm not on your Default View" checkbox.

Incidentally, the "when I'm really bored" filter sounds like a good idea; maybe I should set one up one day. So far, I've only got an "all" filter (so I don't have to remember ?filter=0), as well as at least one filter that I read when I'm bored but contains only communities that produce a fair number of posts that I don't want to have on my Default View. But no filter for "everyone-but-default-and-communities".

(Continued...)

Re: About default views

[pne.livejournal.com]

(...continued from above comment; I really seem to be into the "minor novels in comments" thing recently)

Based on this, with you, specifically, I'd be upset if I were on the "when I'm really bored" filter

You're on my Default View. *checks* As are all personal accounts on my friends list; the only thing in the "Not in group" box are feeds and communities. (Including all support communities, which I have two separate friends groups for, and comics, which also have a group of their own.)

I like you. I trust you, quite a bit.

Thank you. I feel honoured, yet also a bit thoughtful.

A number of people have told me they trust me. It's nice being trusted, yet I sometimes wonder what makes me seem trustworthy.

Especially in this case: it doesn't seem that long ago that you added me. *checks Joule* less than 10 days. Yet you already trust me. And you say you like me, which implies you're familiar with me to a certain extent.

And so I value your opinions and want to hear what you have to say. And if I were on the "when I'm really bored" filter, I would feel like a)you would never see what I had to say, so I would never hear from you [...] and b)you didn't *want* to have opinions on what I had to say

That sounds like something to ponder.

But I suppose that's what it would mean to take someone off your Default View: you're making an opinion that, in general, you don't want to read what they write, which entails not being able to comment or form an opinion on what they write, so I suppose that must not be very important to you in such a case.

and that would hurt.

I suppose so.

But interpersonal relationships can and do hurt; I'm not sure whether the fact that this can hurt someone is significant enough. It's their journal and their friends list.

I sometimes feel hurt when someone doesn't add me to their friends list or removes me after I've been on for a while, but I think that's something I have to deal with. Just like I wish everyone liked me in real life, and not everyone does, and that hurts, but I can't change that easily. (This hurt me a lot more when I was younger and less social.)

But. Because I find what you have to say interesting and I like to talk to you, I would comment on your journal anyway and we'd probably interact some.

I suppose so; that avenue is still open if you remove someone from your Default View. (Unless you really want nothing to do with that person, in which case, the 'ban_set' command is this way (https://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=20).)

And some people may prefer that—not to read tedious accounts of the real life of someone they don't know IRL, yet receive responses from that person to posts they write in their own journal. A different context.

Re: not in one or more custom groups

[pne.livejournal.com]

This might be an appropriate place to mention this:

I wonder whether you changed your filters in the past, because I remember I used to be in some kind of "trustworthy" filter (which included this post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/sparkofcreation/116391.html), which I memorified but which I cannot read any longer) but am not in that any more.

I was curious whether I moved from "1" to "2" (or vice versa), or whether this was an artifact of renaming custom groups or something. That is, whether I was consciously removed from the "trusted" filter or not.

[lovewithnoface.livejournal.com]

Oh. I get it. You were not just asking about custom groups in re reading but also in re posting!

[pne.livejournal.com]

*nods*

"This journal is in one or most custom groups I use for posting" = "I sometimes post entries filtered to one or more friends groups, rather than being 'generic' friends-only. You are on or more of those groups I use for posting"

[lovewithnoface.livejournal.com]

Got it.

Well, then I can answer:

You are in my not-RL group, my support all group, if/when i do default you'll be in there and i'm considering another filter which you will also most probably be in

Re: not in one or more custom groups

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

I got rid of that filter, though mostly accidentally.

All my filters got renamed one day (it was a huge, huge mess; for example, the "only my three best real-life friends can see" filter became the "everyone can see except one person" filter*... you can see the difficulties) and in the re-doing them, some never got re-made. I think the post you're referring to was on the "Not-IRL" filter, the opposite of the "IRL" folder. The IRL filter was re-made; the Not-IRL filter became the "1" (more trusted) and "2" (less trusted, usually newer additions to my friends list) filters. You're on the "1" filter. So you're still in the "trustworthy" filter, but it has a new name, so you can't see the posts that were under the old filter.


*I have a person my friends list who's anorexic and I exclude her from the rare posts where I obsess over my weight.

Re: Changing your answer in polls

[cadenzamuse.livejournal.com]

Oooh, didn't know that either. Thanks!

Re: not in one or more custom groups

[pne.livejournal.com]

Ah, I wondered whether it might have been something like that. (At least, after my initial reaction of shock mingled with disappointment.)

I think the post you're referring to was on the "Not-IRL" filter

Mmmm... I seem to recall it had something to do with "trust", not so much IRL or not. (Perhaps you can still tell from looking at the custom groups associated with that entry? Not sure how that works once you've fiddled around with your groups. Probably not.)

Re: not in one or more custom groups

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I forget what all my filters were called. I think there were a couple called "Not-IRL" something. I just glanced at the entry, so I can't be sure what I was getting at.

In any case, it's because I ended up not re-making a lot of filters after that fiasco.

Re: About default views

[cadenzamuse.livejournal.com]

Just woke up from a nap and not quite sure my sentences are being put together properly. Forgive me.

It's nice being trusted, yet I sometimes wonder what makes me seem trustworthy.
You seem trustworthy because you're steady. You "sound" reasonable, and you say reasonable things. And when I see that other friends (whom I trust) trust you, that's another check that "hmm...he hasn't been un-trustworthy to anyone else, so that's reasonable assurance he won't be un-trustworthy to me."

Especially in this case: it doesn't seem that long ago that you added me. *checks Joule* less than 10 days. Yet you already trust me. And you say you like me, which implies you're familiar with me to a certain extent.
Hee. Here we run into the "Cadenza the Stalker" syndrome, which is that I tend to find out about someone before I actually start talking to them. In this case, I watched how you and Cassia interacted on several occasions, I made a note of what people said about you in IRC and Support communities and on my friends' list, and I went and rummaged through your public entries a little bit. So, though I don't really know (or remember!) specifics, I had a general impression of you when I friended you--which may or may not be accurate, but impressions are like that.

I guess I'm a rather instinctual person, though I dislike that description. And, at the moment, instinct says you're not going to knock me down. Challenge my assumptions, yes, make me stretch a bit, yes, teach me HTML and Klingon, yes, but try to wound what is an essential part of me, no. So, after a preliminary screening (and everyone saying something along the lines of "Philip is kind"), I trust you. If you do something to be untrustworthy, believe me, I'll stop trusting you. But unless that happens, it's much more pleasant for me to trust you than not.

But interpersonal relationships can and do hurt; I'm not sure whether the fact that this can hurt someone is significant enough. It's their journal and their friends list.
No, you're right about this. I'm just saying that I personally don't like this sort of treatment toward me (I have a bit of a self-esteem problem and so my journal not passing the "interesting-ness test" is saying somewhat that my soul is uninteresting, on some level, and that is a bit disconcerting), and so I don't treat people that way. I still think people should do whatever they wish to with their journals, and if it hurts me, I'll get over it, but, because it hurts, I try not to do it myself. For me, skipping someone's entries is a small price to pay for occasionally seeing something that they think is important that I can help with, or making them feel comfortable with me. I guess I think that if I trust someone, I ought to be trustworthy too, and thus be there for someone. But I'm a, well, to put it in Harry Potter fanfiction terms, "a Healer." I like to keep people company and ask questions about them and draw out answers they didn't know they had and make them feel better. A novice intercessor, I guess; I help superficially with words, but a lot of it is just praying that people will be made whole. So I feel obligated to people I trust. (Which is funny, considering the other half of what I'm saying is that, even if I perceive something as hurtful, I don't want people to feel obligated to me. Because it's in my job description, but it doesn't have to be in theirs.)

I fully understand that some people see the institution of the default view differently than I do, and it's their journal. They can do whatever they want. I guess I'm more low-maintenance because if something bothers me, I just ignore it and go elsewhere until the bothersome thing has blown over than because I don't have opinions on things. I just tend to be very, very non-confrontational (moreso online than in real life, oddly enough).

(...continued from above comment; I really seem to be into the "minor novels in comments" thing recently)
Well, I'm writing minor novel comments right back at you, so I'm not surprised. :P

[jc.livejournal.com]

All P-type journals are in my Default View, but I never, ever read my Default view.

I have an "all" filter, which includes every single journal on my friends list apart from those (personal or otherwise) journals I really can't be bothered reading at the time. None of those at present...

[pne.livejournal.com]

So, uh, why do you have a custom friends group you never use?

[jc.livejournal.com]

To keep the syndicated and community spam out of my default view. It's handy when I need to separate my friends page into manageable chunks, say when I've been gone for a week or so.