That sucks

[pne]

Or rather, it likes to suck.

Stella says that Amy really likes to suckle, such as after she's done drinking—and when Stella tries to put her breast away, Amy will complain and will want to lick or suck for a bit.

She's also been crying a bit the past day or two, possibly from stomach complaints, but maybe also from other things—and sucking on something (a finger, for example) will get her to quiet down.

Stella just tried to nurse her but she says Amy is just suckling, not actually drinking.

She said she's considering getting a dummy (pacifier) for her since she seems to like sucking so much, and it calms her down—but I'm not such a fan of them. Among the things I've heard is that it may impair or change the development of their jaw shape and that it may cause them to drink less since they're satisfying part of their need to suck on something that doesn't provide nutrition, so they'll drink less well at the breast. I've also heard that it might cause them to have difficulties nursing at the breast due to the different shapes, and that at least for the first weeks of life, one should avoid using a dummy.

But having her cry the whole time is not fun, either, and giving her the breast when she's not hungry seems a bit... hm... not exactly a waste of time, but something like that. Having her occupied might also help while changing nappies, which she occasionally protests loudly over.

Any advice or experience?

---

After visiting Bettina, she said that she doesn't think dummies are so reprehensible, and that it may be preferable to letting her scream all the time. (She also said that in the course of our parenting, we'll have to make compromises with our "standards" many times when we find out that things aren't as cut-and-dried as that.)

She also pointed out that while Amy might enjoy just sucking on the breast all day long, the nipples won't hold up to that for too long, and then just nursing would be a chore—which would also be an undesirable state of things.

She also said that maybe we should just wait and see how things turn out—for example, when her daughter switched from dummy to thumb, it only lasted for a week and a half, and had they known that, they could have been a lot more calm about it.

Comments

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

Among the things I've heard is that it may impair or change the development of their jaw shape and that it may cause them to drink less since they're satisfying part of their need to suck on something that doesn't provide nutrition, so they'll drink less well at the breast.

I've heard that these are all urban legends, but obviously I have no experience (except that I wasn't given a pacifier as a child, but my jaw still got screwed up :P). If I were you I'd check out as many different impartial sources on the topic as possible, not just ones written by people who have thoroughly drunk of the breastfeeding Kool-Aid.

[jpallan.livejournal.com]

They should indeed avoid dummies at this point.

You can use the finger to keep her quiet when need be, but what it sounds like Stella needs is a sling -- it's a cloth carrier that holds the baby in a nursing position and allows them to just nurse as they feel like it. Most babies prefer to use Mama as a pacifier, and it's not like you can effectively discipline a newborn anyway -- she's not going to stop if you space out feedings by 15 minutes minimum.

[karen2205]

My mother never gave me or my sister dummies (she didn't breastfeed us either and we both thrived on formula (though I suspect I'll attempt to breastfeed for a while when I have children)). Her reasoning was that she hated seeing babies with dummies in their mouths/a dummy being an automatic response to a crying baby, and I think that's fairly sound, but tbh I don't think giving her a dummy is going to have that many harmful effects and it'll provide her with comfort sucking. Stella can't sit with her attached to a breast *all* the time - her nipples will get very sore if nothing else. Amy's possibly a bit young for this, but you might be able to show her that she can suck on her fingers/thumbs - that'd give her the comfort sucking item without giving her a dummy. Alternatively you could possibly try to find other ways to entertain her eg. a mobile, a rattle, even something like a game of football on the telly - my sister was a few weeks old during some major football thing and she was quite contented sat watching the screen - she was at the age where all she could see were shapes moving across the green. (No I'm not advocating using a telly as a babysitting object).

[pne.livejournal.com]

You can use the finger to keep her quiet when need be

She's been doing that a bit already.

what it sounds like Stella needs is a sling

She has one of those (http://www.didymos.de/) - a long length of cloth that you can tie in various shapes (e.g. holding the baby in front of you, on your back, on your side, etc.) She's already tried carrying her around a bit and Amy seemed to like it. (She also likes being carried around laying with her tummy on my arm.)

holds the baby in a nursing position and allows them to just nurse as they feel like it.

Hm... not sure whether that would work, since "as they feel like it" would probably mean nursing for fifteen minutes and then sucking for half an hour - which would probably not be good for Stella's nipples in the long run.

Most babies prefer to use Mama as a pacifier

and Amy would probably be fine with that, but I don't know whether Stella's body would go along with that.

it's not like you can effectively discipline a newborn anyway -- she's not going to stop if you space out feedings by 15 minutes minimum.

I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you said here. What do you mean?

Are you saying "make sure you have at least fifteen minutes between feedings, then <something>"? Or "even if you delay feedings for fifteen minutes, she won't stop <doing something>"? Or what?

[pne.livejournal.com]

Stella can't sit with her attached to a breast *all* the time - her nipples will get very sore if nothing else.

*nods* That's what Bettina said when we visited her today.

She also agreed with your sentiment that giving her a dummy is [not] going to have that many harmful effects and it'll provide her with comfort sucking, and said that it may be a trade-off between our principles/resolutions and how much screaming baby we're willing to endure / how much discomfort we're willing to inflict on Amy.

Amy's possibly a bit young for this, but you might be able to show her that she can suck on her fingers/thumbs

Hm... she is already starting to discover her hands (though she's not yet coordinated enough to have them stay in or near her mouth all the time).

[jpallan.livejournal.com]

I mean, if she wants to suck on Mama, she won't stop or "learn" if you make a "not nursing again in the next fifteen minutes" rule. But if she just wants to suck, you can certainly take her for a while, let her suck on your finger, and give Stella a break. I remember how overtouched I was particularly well when Julianne was sick the last couple of days.

Chris leaned over to touch me and I just stiffened and told him, "Get the f**k away from me."

Julianne, you see, had not let go of me for more than 2 minutes, including during eating or sleeping, for 40-odd hours running at that point, since the poor angel has a fever. It drove me mad.

[nik-w.livejournal.com]

From one techie to another, bringing up babies/children is like building websites - making everthing all lovely and standards-compliant is a wonderful thing, but sometimes that only works in theory and compromises have to be made! After days of tearing your hair out trying to get a page to work AND be standards compliant, you just give up and make it work (as ultimately, that's more important) - equally when your baby/child has spent hours screaming, you'll be less worried about giving them a dummy if it just shuts them up for a bit!:D

Seriously, though, I've been through the whole baby thing with quite a few friends and family - everytime the parents have done things different ways, and it doesn't seem to have made a whole lot of difference either way.

Certainly if the baby spends too much time sucking at the breast, the nipples will get extremely sore - possibly even to the the point where it is agony to feed the baby (which can be very upsetting for the mother as well as the baby) - I've seen this happen a couple of times. I wouldn't worry too much about the whole "don't do this as it'll cause this" buiness, as it's more often than not a load of old wives' tales that have little or no substance.

If all dummies caused deformed jaws, for instance, then there'd be an awful lot of people out there with deformed jaws! Some kids will take to dummies and some won't - my nephew wouldn't touch one (despite his mother's best attempts), whereas my brother had one for years.

Standards are good as a guideline, IMO, but not always particularly practical when followed to the letter. Just take things as they come and use your judgement - that's part of the fun of bringing up children!:)

[pne.livejournal.com]

Standards are good as a guideline, IMO, but not always particularly practical when followed to the letter.

That's something I'm not willing to embrace just now - I'm a bit idealistic on that point. But I'll keep it in mind and evaluate how my mindview works out in real life.

[fridoline.livejournal.com]

Two things:

Keep in mind that she is now ten days old - a usual time for a "Wachstumsschub". So it is no wonder if Amy is a little more cranky and wants to nurse and suck more. If the situation does not improve in a day or two though, you really should look for other solutions.

The question is also whether Amy would accept a dummy. Some just don't like that lifeless object and prefer breast, finger or thumb. If you decide to give it a chance for the sake of Stella's nipples (Emily had a phase around 7 weeks of age where she wanted to suck so often, that Mum cried because here sore nipples hurt so much), you might have to try a few different models to see which one Amy is most comfortable with.

The most common ones here in D are from Nuk and from MAM. Both shapes come in caoutchouc and in Silicon. Rossmann and Budni have dummies that match Nuk and MAM. Then there are various less common variants from different companies. It would be a good idea to try the more common dummies first, since they are easier to obtain and also a little cheaper.

Emily had a dummy for about two months, but never really grew attached to it. She tried her thumb too, for a while, but gave that up as well. When Mum stopped breast-feeding her when she was 16 months old, she started using a dummy again (we had a couple of them lying around for her to play with), mainly for going to sleep and waking up. Emily uses MAM dummies and the Babylove dummies form Budni, which are similar (both out of caoutchouc).