Amy at the kindergarten; Bettina's birthday party

[pne]

Today, I brought Amy to kindergarten.

Stella wasn't feeling well, so she asked me whether I could take the day off work; as it happened, that worked fairly well, since our connection to the database servers still isn't up after the network switch we had over the weekend (all the workstations are on the new net, but nearly none of the various servers are so far).

So I took Amy there by myself. Only one girl was there so far: Adriana, who speaks German and Polish, with her mother Gosia. (Who was surprised that I "knew" [= guessed correctly] how to spell her name after having heard it. I just thought it sounded Polish, and since it didn't sound quite like [S], it was presumably [s\], which should be spelled <si> in that environment.) Incidentally, I was surprised how well Adriana spoke German when she later spoke to me; I assumed that since her mother spoke Polish to her (and vice versa) that her Polish would be much better than her German. Which it possibly is, but at any rate, her German seemed completely adequate.

Later on, Christine (who speaks Swedish and understands German) and Sana (who speaks Urdu and, to some extent, English—though she's already picked up a little bit of German) came with their father and mother, respectively, so there were four children, and we all had breakfast together there. (Amy sat at a table by herself [well, with me]; she seemed unwilling to sit at the main table with everyone else.)

I talked to Sana's mother, Shama, and asked whether they spoke Hindi at home and she said, yes, well, Urdu actually. I was going to ask how to write Sana's name in Indian, so this was good news as my command of the Arabic script is quite a lot better than of Devanagari :) They're سنا and شما, respectively.

Shama said she speaks not only Urdu (her mother tongue) and English (the language she received all her schooling in), but also Kannada, the official language of Karnataka, the state she's from (she's from Bangalore/Bengaluru). She can also read and write Kannada very well, which (as I understood it) she learned at school; in contrast, she had to learn to read and write her own language more or less by herself, since there's next to no formal instruction in/on Urdu where she comes from. (She also says my Arabic handwriting is better than hers, which I found surprising; since I only learned to read print, rather than handwriting, and I don't have any examples for good handwriting style, mine looks fairly close to type—which led one Arab to say that my handwriting looks like a first grader's.)

After a while, Vivien suggested that I withdraw and not play directly with Amy, since she's supposed to get to know the other children and the teachers and get used to them, rather than to expect me as a playmate, so I went into the kitchen (which adjoined the room where the children were most of the time). Amy still occasionally came to me, but for the most part, she played by herself. (Hardly at all with the other children, but perhaps/hopefully that will change later.) I also suggested to her several times when she came to me for help that she ask one of the teachers during the time she's in kindergarten.

Things went fairly well for about three hours, when she began to grow tired. When that happens, her frustration threshold goes down and eventually she started crying because a doll wouldn't fit properly into the pram, so I decided it was time to go. I took her to the toilet in case she fell asleep on the way home, and though by the time we came back, she was ready to continue playing, I got her dressed and we prepared to leave. (In the mean time, the other girls had all left, too, though two boys had come: a German(?) called Timo and a Lebanese called Hussein.)

Steffi (the leader, aka she of the amber eyes; I has asked her at breakfast time what she would prefer to be called and she said that with most parents, the teachers are on a first-name/"du" basis, and she's fine with "Steffi" rather than "Stephanie") accompanied us to the door. I asked her whether I might give her a hug and she, after apparently thinking about it briefly, extended her arms and so I gave her a quick goodbye hug.

---

Since the bus wasn't about to come for another few minutes, I set off walking with Amy to another bus stop, from where we would be able to take a bus straight home, without having to change.

Amy stayed awake (and walked on her own for most of the way, though it takes me about eight minutes on my own, probably twice that with Amy next to me) and we took the bus home. We ate yesterday's pizza for dinner, and then Stella went back to bed, where she had spent most of the morning, trying to recover a bit more. I "parked" Amy in front of the television for two showings of Der kleine König and most of Miffy.

Towards five or so, Amy was in Stella's bed, talking, cuddling, joking with her, and eating a biscuit I had brought her, when she started to fall asleep—something she normally never does voluntarily during the day. We kept her awake since we wanted her to fall asleep during the evening instead.

---

We had been invited to Bettina's birthday party, at fairly short notice since she had only decided on having a little party a couple of days previously. And indeed, Amy fell asleep in her pushchair on the way there, so that was good.

We had a four-course meal that Bettina had cooked (mostly by herself); it was worth 10 Weight Watchers Points, which was something that all the guests but Stella and I needed to know. (WW is fairly popular in our ward at the moment; all sorts of people are doing it, and Stella has asked whether I shouldn't consider it, too.)

After the food, we retired to the couch to continue our conversation, which was rather pleasant.

Later still, Peter broke out the "UltraStar Deluxe" software, and we sang a bit of karaoke.

Amy woke up and fussed a bit, but we managed to calm her down again.

Brigitte drove us home, which was nice since it was rather windy, and it had also rained when we came. (And besides, it takes about 25 minutes to walk, or 15 minutes if you take the unlit shortcut through the park).

When we got home, Amy let herself be undressed and put to bed; she was already half-asleep, apparently, so that all went fairly well.

Comments

[kait-the-great.livejournal.com]

Weight Watcher Points is an excellent system based in reality. I highly recommend it. My Mom had huge success with it, and I'm really impressed with how flexible it is. Even using it to keep tabs on what you're really eating works, since you can count anything even if keeping the total down isn't your goal.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

... Kindergarten? Is kindergarten different in Germany than here, or did I misplace a few years somewhere along the way?

Having lost 50 pounds so far on WW (err ... 22kg if my math is right), I'm pretty happy with it. Also, I am about to open a bag of honey-dijon flavored potato chips to eat while watching "American Idol." After which I promise myself I will walk the dog.

[pne.livejournal.com]

... Kindergarten? Is kindergarten different in Germany than here, or did I misplace a few years somewhere along the way?

Maybe that wasn't the best word to use, if the two are different on either side of the pond; I don't know about that.

Where she's going is what is referred to here as a "Kita" (short for "Kindertagesstätte" or "Kindertageseinrichtung"; this may possible be a Hamburg local word), which is divided up here into "Krippe" (literally, "crèche", i.e. "manger"/"animal feeding thingy with hay etc. in it") for 0-3 year olds and "Elementar" for 3-6 year olds. (After that comes "Hort" for children from 6-12 or -14, intended for children to go there after school if their parents are still working.)

In Hamburg, everyone has a right to 4 or 5 hours a day of Kita if your child is at least 3 and has not yet started school; if your child is younger or older, or if you want more than 5 hours, then you'll have to find a Kita that has space for your child but you don't have a legal right to a space. The government also subsidises costs and you pay a fee that depends on your income, the number of people in your family, and how many hours a day you need.

So "kindergarten" in this context was "place for children aged roughly 3-6 years old".

After that is an optional (what I'd call) "preschool" ("Vorschule" in German) which is more structured/education-oriented than a kindergarten, and then school. I think Vorschule is one year, so children there would probably be around 6.

What's "kindergarten" where you live?

(Oh, and Amy is three-and-a-half.)

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Here "pre-school" or "nursery school" is where children age 3-4 go to prepare them for school (it's optional, most cities/towns have free part-time programs, but kids who are low-income or otherwise disadvantaged go free full-time to a program called Head Start), then kindergarten is the first year of school, when kids are 5. Kindergarten can be part-day or full-day (a full school day is usually between 6-7 hours, kindergarten is usually only half that but there's a trend towards all-day kindergarten). I guess it's most equivalent to Vorschule. It's more structured than pre-school or nursery school (I think of pre-school as public and nursery school as private and also as being combined with day care), but not as structured as school. You mostly have a lot of play time, but they also teach letters and numbers and that sort of thing.

Kindergarten here is equivalent to Year 1 of primary school in the UK.

[pne.livejournal.com]

Kindergarten here is equivalent to Year 1 of primary school in the UK.

I have no cultural context for that, either, since I've never lived there.

It does seem not to match up to German schools, since I would expect children to be 6 or 7 when they start "1. Klasse" (their first year of school). So US "kindergarten" does sound more like DE "Vorschule".

(And German schools have 9, 10, 12, or 13 years, depending on the diploma you're aiming for/the school form you're attending. Traditionally, 4 years in Grundschule, followed by 5 years in a Hauptschule until Hauptschulabschluss, 6 years in a Realschule until Realschulabschluss/Mittlere Reife, or 9 years in a Gymnasium until Abitur [which will let you study at university] -- but some Gymnasien seem to be moving towards Abitur at the end of year 12 rather than year 13. Oh, and year 5 and possibly also 6 may also be "Orientierungsstufe", where they still figure out which of the three school forms is most suited to you, depending on your academic achievement and your goals in life.)

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

That sounds quite similar to the Mexican system, actually, though they do start with optional kindergarten (jardín de los niños). But they then do 6 years of primaria, 3 years of secundaria, and then after secundaria, they can either leave school (many careers, like elementary school teacher, only require the diploma de secundaria), go on to an escuela profesional-técnica for 2-4 years to learn a career (including things like programming as well as skilled labor), or go to a 3-year escuela preparatoria which prepares them to go on to university.

Here school is always kindergarten + 12 years, though kindergarten doesn't count (like if someone says they had 16 years of education, it means they finished university). Elementary/primary/grade school is kindergarten through 5th or 6th grade, middle/junior high school is 6/7-8/9, and then high school is 9/10 through 12th. (Some private schools vary, K-8 and then 9-12 is common for Catholic schools for example, but that's the general form.) Some schools have vocational-technical programs built in and some districts have special vo-tech schools separately, but you're still required to finish middle school and do 4 years of high school including the state's requirements for core subjects (like you might study hairdressing half-time and spend the other half on English, math, science, and history).

Our universities are also more rigid; you're expected to do an associate degree in 2 years, bachelor in 4 (total, including associate if any), master is 2 years beyond the bachelor, and PhD is 5 years beyond the bachelor. Law school is 3 years and med school is 4, both require a bachelor before admission.

[elgrande.livejournal.com]

"Where she's going is what is referred to here as a "Kita" (short for "Kindertagesstätte" or "Kindertageseinrichtung"; this may possible be a Hamburg local word)"

I know it, too, so it isn't. :) I often find it hard to judge which words are local and which are more universal (and to what degree).

[elgrande.livejournal.com]

I once talked about the German system with a Mexican and he found it odd that in Germany students are usually separated after 4th grade to go to separate schools according to ability levels (usually 3 separate types), only the highest of which issues diplomas that allow you to go to university. It is a questionable and often criticized point about the German educational system but I guess most people think of it as normal.


"Our universities are also more rigid; you're expected to do an associate degree in 2 years, bachelor in 4 (total, including associate if any), master is 2 years beyond the bachelor, and PhD is 5 years beyond the bachelor. Law school is 3 years and med school is 4, both require a bachelor before admission."

The problem I have with such information is that find it hard to really put it into context. Like here traditionally there isn't a distinction between bachelor and master degrees, one studies one subject and gets a degree. More and more subjects here are changing that but not all and I don't know if it's really comparable to US degrees.
Law is a normal subject that you can study at university here without having to study anything else first. How fast you graduate really depends on how fast you are, but if you're fast it's four years of university and a two-year practical phase, during which you serve in different stations like law firm, prosecution, court and public administration. A specialty about law and some other subjects is that the university cannot issue degrees, but you have to pass governmental exams (Staatsexamen), one after the university phase and one after the practical phase. You don't really have a degree until you pass the second governmental exam.
I don't really know what my point is. :) Either I wanted to tell you what it's like here or I wanted to clarify a bit why it is sometimes hard for me to follow when someone talks about education in US terms.

[elgrande.livejournal.com]

Is it normal for parents to stay with their kids there? Do other parents do that, too? I never went to a Kita. I went to a normal German Kindergarten but I don't think either of my parents ever stayed there to spend the morning with me.

"Today, I brought Amy to kindergarten."

Is this German influence or actually correct English? (I would have expected "took".)

[pne.livejournal.com]

Is it normal for parents to stay with their kids there? Do other parents do that, too?

Only at the beginning (during the "Eingewöhnungsphase"), where the child is getting used to the setting and the other children and the teachers. How long that takes depends on the child and its personality; one to three weeks seems to be normal, I think.

You gradually get further and further away (sitting at the side of the room; leaving the room briefly; leaving the building e.g. to go shopping) until the child is used to spending whatever number of hours without the parent, at which time the Eingewöhnungsphase is over and the child simply goes to kindergarten.

Something similar happens with Tageseltern (daycare?); whenever Stella got a new child, the mother came along for the first several times until the child was comfortable with staying here (and with turning to Stella for assistance rather than, or at least in addition to, her mother).

"Today, I brought Amy to kindergarten."

Is this German influence or actually correct English? (I would have expected "took".)

Oops - yes, I think this is a Germanism. (It might have been correct if I lived in the kindergarten, or at least worked there.) I think it should indeed be "took".

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Oops, I misunderstood. I thought that it was after about 8 years of education that the German system separated out students. As I said, Mexican students who finish secundaria have three options for further schooling or not.

Most US universities require that you spend about half your time on your chosen subject and about half on general subjects during the bachelor degree (roughly 60 credit-hours of each; most classes are 3-4 credit hours, a credit hour being one hour per week for a full semester). A master degree is focused only on one subject, and may be more specialized in one area than the overview of that subject during the bachelor. A PhD is even more specialized during the master.

For example, my BA is in Spanish. I spent roughly half my time at university on Spanish language, literature, culture, and linguistics and the other half on everything else (mathematics, life sciences, physical sciences, Western and non-Western history, philosophy, arts, etc.). Then I went on to do an MA in Spanish which focused entirely on translation and interpreting. If I were to continue to a PhD in this field, I would either focus on one facet of the field (say, interpreting in criminal court proceedings) or on something less real-world-oriented like the neurological processes involved in interpreting. (I mean, if I personally were going to do a PhD I'd start over with an MA in Spanish Linguistics and then do my PhD on historical linguistics, but that would be considered changing fields somewhat, it wouldn't be something I could do with the MA I have now.)