Testa mihi dolet

Saturday, 29 March 2008 12:31
pne: A picture of a plush toy, halfway between a duck and a platypus, with a green body and a yellow bill and feet. (Default)
[personal profile] pne

1) The French and Italian words for headtête and testa, respectively—come not from the classical Latin word, caput, but (as I understand it) from Vulgar Latin testa, which originally meant a brick and later a clay pot or jug.

2) Unrelatedly, as those of you are around small children will know, a common mispronunciation is to pronounce /k/ as /t/, for example, (puddy) tat for the animal that says "meow".

Now the amusing thing for me is that 2) leads Amy to pronounce Kopf "head" as Topf "pot"! As in, "Mein Topf tut weh!"

The obvious conclusion is that the meaning shift in Vulgar Latin which led to the French and Italian words for head was influenced by baby-talk from neighbouring Germanic tribes.

Date: Saturday, 29 March 2008 11:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hidden-kitten.livejournal.com
I'm amused and also in agreeance. Ah, language.

Date: Saturday, 29 March 2008 11:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghewgill.livejournal.com
You think too much about this stuff. :)

Date: Saturday, 29 March 2008 13:00 (UTC)
ext_78: A picture of a plush animal. It looks a bit like a cross between a duck and a platypus. (Default)
From: [identity profile] pne.livejournal.com
No doubt :)

Date: Saturday, 29 March 2008 21:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] psitticism.livejournal.com
Well, obviously. Germanic tribal babies are, after all, the most influential kind.

Date: Sunday, 30 March 2008 00:08 (UTC)
ext_21000: (Default)
From: [identity profile] tungol.livejournal.com
What's the etymology of Kopf, do you know? I think I've heard, but forget.

Date: Sunday, 30 March 2008 00:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elgrande.livejournal.com
Duden.de (http://www.duden.de/suche/index.php?begriff=kopf&bereich=mixed&pneu=) gives "[mhd. kopf, koph = Becher, Trinkgefäß; scherz. übertr. dann: Hirnschale, Kopf, ...", so apparently it's a pretty analogous story to the "tête"/"testa" thing in French and Italian.

Date: Sunday, 30 March 2008 01:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elgrande.livejournal.com
And apparently (http://www.duden.de/suche/index.php?begriff=haupt&bereich=mixed&pneu=) there's a pretty analogous story for German "Haupt", too: "[mhd. houbet, ahd. houbit, eigtl. = Gefäß, Schale; zur Bedeutungsentwicklung →vgl. Kopf]"

Date: Sunday, 30 March 2008 01:09 (UTC)
ext_21000: (Default)
From: [identity profile] tungol.livejournal.com
Thanks. My vague memory was that it was analogous, but I wasn't sure.

The repetition makes the incident all the more amusing :-)

Date: Sunday, 30 March 2008 01:13 (UTC)
ext_21000: (Default)
From: [identity profile] tungol.livejournal.com
Hmm...
That looks like the German cognate of 'head' (OE 'heafod'). So I checked the OED, which links them, but doesn't give a 'vessel' type meaning as their origin.

Haupt

Date: Sunday, 30 March 2008 08:20 (UTC)
ext_78: A picture of a plush animal. It looks a bit like a cross between a duck and a platypus. (Default)
From: [identity profile] pne.livejournal.com

dtv Etymologisches Wörterbuch des Deutschen says s. v. "Haupt":



Haupt n. ‘Kopf, wer an der Spitze steht, Führer, Leiter’.



Neben den noch oder ursprünglich einen Diphthong in der ersten Silbe (germ. *haubiþa-) aufweisenden Formen ahd. houbit ‘Kopf, Haupt’ (8. Jh.), mhd. houbet, houpt, asächs. hōƀid, mnd. hȫvet, mnl. hōvet; hooft, nl. hoofd, aengl. hēafod, engl. head, anord. haufuð, got. haubiþ stehen mit einfachem Vokal (germ. *habuþa-) aengl. hafud, anord. hǫfuð.



Nur die letztgenannten lassen sich unmittelbar an lat. caput ‘Kopf, Haupt’ und (mit l-Suffix) aind. kapā́lam ‘Schale, Hirnschale, Schädel’ anknüpfen.



Es handelt sich dabei vermutlich um Nominalbildungen zu der bei heben und haben (s. d.) angeführten Wurzel ie. *kap- ‘fassen’, die mehrfach in Wörtern für Gefäße erscheint. Auch für Haupt ist daher eine Ausgangsbedeutung ‘Schalenförmiges, Gefäß’ anzunehmen, so daß eine ähnliche Bedeutungsentwicklung vorliegt wie bei Kopf (s. d.) und bei frz. tête ‘Kopf’ (aus lat. testa ‘Gefäß, Schale, Scherbe’).



Schwierigkeiten bereitet jedoch die Erklärung der diphthongischen Formen, die entweder eine rein lautliche Entwicklung innerhalb des Germ. voraussetzen oder auf eine Verquickung mit Bildungen wie Haube (s. d.) hindeuten, dann allerdings auf eine andere ie. Wurzel zurückgehen.



Bis zum 15. Jh. ist Haupt das einzige Wort für ‘Kopf’; es wird allgemein seit dem 16. Jh. durch ‘Kopf’ (s. d.) verdrängt, bleibt aber als gehobener Ausdruck bis heute geläufig.



This implies that the ‘vessel’ type meaning would have been earlier than Latin caput.



It also says that it’s a bit tricky to determine the origin of the diphthongs in the Germanic words.

My cup hurts!

Date: Sunday, 30 March 2008 08:21 (UTC)
ext_78: A picture of a plush animal. It looks a bit like a cross between a duck and a platypus. (Default)
From: [identity profile] pne.livejournal.com
Ah, so German "Kopf" is essentially English "cup"! Interesting.

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