(no subject)

[pne]

Why, oh why is there so much drama on LiveJournal?

Comments

[danceinacircle.livejournal.com]

oo ooo drama drama where?

[pne.livejournal.com]

The entire 'friend-of' thing, for example, that's featured in the past few news entries and assorted lj_biz ones.

Reading the comments makes my head spin, since I tend to be in the "so what? just because they friend you doesn't give them any power over you, so get over it, it's really not a big deal" camp.

As for the "don't want to be associated with them in any way, shape, or form": people should know that what's on your "Friend-of" list is not under your control. If someone spray-paints your car with offensive graffiti, are you "associated" with the vandal? Same thing, IMO. (And as someone pointed out, hiding your friends list doesn't mean nobody can find out that offensivename has friended you, since paid users can use the directory. But, er, your point is? So they friended you.)

Maybe everyone should just quite LiveJournal so they won't be "associated" with serial adders, trolls, and people writing their journal in 13-year-old blinking AOLese.

[missysedai.livejournal.com]

Heh. My favorite argument is "They're invading my privacy!!"

Dolts.

[bluewingedcat.livejournal.com]

If someone spray-paints your car with offensive graffiti, are you "associated" with the vandal?

You're not associated... but would you reread your anaology there? It quite aptly displays our point.

graffiti on your car

[pne.livejournal.com]

It was the first thing that came to mind but doesn't convey how I see the situation.

Do you feel your userinfo page is 'vandalised' if offensivename friends you and your userinfo page says so? I think that's one of the bits I don't understand, a bit I feel is hyped way out of proportion.

Re: graffiti on your car

[bluewingedcat.livejournal.com]

I don't feel vandalized. I feel that the system is being abused. And it is. These users make journals solely for the harrassment of others, and do it in such a fashion that LJ Abuse will refuse to address the issue when it's put before them.

Honestly, I feel that something should be done about the problem*, instead of just letting us remove people from our friend-of list, but I'll settle for being able to delete them off my user info. Maybe they'll get the hint, y'know?

*Wherein the problem is the abuse that's going on, not aesthetics.

harassment

[pne.livejournal.com]

These users make journals solely for the harrassment of others

and they do so because people feel harassed simply by being on someone's friends list.

Encouraging people to trash a certain user is not cool, but I think that friending someone should be harmless.

I feel that something should be done about the problem

I feel that part of the problem is people feeling upset just because someone friended them. Regardless of their username. If friending them is all they've done, I can understand when the Abuse Team refuses to get involved.

I think I can kind of understand that some people feel upset by this (even though I don't think it's worth it), but I'm not sure how much effect this should have on policies.

Re: harassment

[bluewingedcat.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* there are peole who friend me that I don't friend back. I don't care. They aren't inviting harrassment down on my journal.

Frankly, I think friend's only entrie should be open for view by LJ abuse if there's a report filed. Most responses are still going to be, "this isn't abuse," but it would stop these fucktards that do abuse the system from continuing.

Re: harassment

[pne.livejournal.com]

there are peole who friend me that I don't friend back. I don't care.

Incidentally, I'm curious now why you decided to friend me back. (As I said at the time, I appreciate the trust.)

Or, how do you decide whom you friend back and whom you don't? For example, do you usually friend back anyone unless you have a reason not to, or do you usually friend nobody back unless you have a reason to do so?

Frankly, I think friend's only entrie should be open for view by LJ abuse if there's a report filed.

I can imagine that it would help their investigations in a number of cases, but I don't have any experiences of my own. (You could ask fweebles, for example, who's commented on this entry - he's on the Abuse Team.)

I know that there's a priv that allows you to view any entry even if it's protected but (a) it's only given to very few people, (b) every use of this priv is logged, and (c) someone I trust told me that this priv is used very rarely. (I think she has that priv but I'm not certain. She's a LiveJournal employee, FWIW - I think the only ones who have this priv are also employees.) I guess Abuse people can usually work on cases even without this.

Re: graffiti on your car

[fweebles.livejournal.com]

Yep. And if people wouldn't throw such a fit about it, people wouldn't do it any more.

This is why I was against changing the way friends/friend-ofs worked, because it's giving into the whiners. But, I must say, Brad's come up with an elegant solution this time, that I can live with.

[karen2205]

'cos the kids didn't grow up on Usenet:-)

[pne.livejournal.com]

I haven't come across much drama on Usenet, either, but that's probably more to do with the newsgroups I'd read.

[karen2205]

It's more the mindset that comes from going through it - ie none of this 'friends-of' drama would be tolerated.

A few good flames never did anyone any harm, and in many cases they do a lot of good, by making people realise they're too worked up about something of little/no importance.

[rho]

I can think of several obvious reasons. The first is the insulating wall of technology. "they aren't real people if I only speak to them through the computer". For some unknown reason people develop a complete inability to think when they're put in front of a computer, and they say things that they would never say in person, or on the phone, or in a letter, or anywhere else.

Then there's the whole "it's my journal so I'll do what I want with it" frame of mind. Fine in theory, but really sucky in practice, especially when "what I want" is "to badmouth people". This leads to all sorts of passive aggressive nonsense, with people making thinly veiled attacks against each other in their journals, in the name of "just reporting how I feel". If they'd actually talk to each other then they'd have a chance of sorting out whatever the issue is, but if they just bitch into the ether then there's no chance.

Then there's the whole social networking aspect. You only need to think for a second about things like FOAF and 6 degrees to realise how complicated some of the social webs are. If you're using a one to one communication method, then you actually think about what you're saying to each person. You don't badmouth someone to their best friend, even if you're also friends with that person. On LJ, people just post friends only, or filtered, or whatever, without thinking about all the people who can see the entry. Hence people get unwittingly caught in the middle. And then when they post about it, then that ends up just escalating the drama further.

Then there's the whole archive factor. If you get into an argument, you can say "ahh, but that wasn't what you said 2 years ago" and you can dredge up a link to prove it.

Finally, though, I think that the reason that there's so much drama on LJ is that people like drama. It gives them a chance to express their righteous outrage. And LJ is a place where they can get away with it without being beaten around the head.

[pne.livejournal.com]

Would I be prejudiced if I said "because there are too many high-school-age girls on LiveJournal"?

[fweebles.livejournal.com]

Perhaps, but I'd be prejudiced too. :)

Re: harassment

[bluewingedcat.livejournal.com]

I pretty much friend back any legit user. I usually wait and do it in a group kind of thing (cause I'm lazy). But LJ IS a community and I do believe in supporting that. You're not here to harrass me in any way shape or form, so why should I care if you see what I write or not?

I use friend's only setting to keep my mom and certain other folks without LJ's from reading what I write.

But, as I said, you're a legit user. You understand what the system is for and, well, how NOT to be a fucktard.

My problem is with the people who abuse the system for their own personal playground. That's not the intent of LJ and they know it, but youc an bet they'll be the first to tout off that LJ is a community.

From dictionary.com:

com-mu-ni-ty Pronunciation Key (k-myn-t)
n. pl. com-mu-ni-ties

1a A group of people living in the same locality and under the same government.
1b The district or locality in which such a group lives.

2a A group of people having common interests: the scientific community; the international business community.
2b A group viewed as forming a distinct segment of society: the gay community; the community of color.

3a Similarity or identity: a community of interests.
3b Sharing, participation, and fellowship.
3c Society as a whole; the public.

[joyitude.livejournal.com]

Because that's what happens when you get a large group of idiots together, and when said idiots take offense easily. :)

[lovewithnoface.livejournal.com]

Because there is lots of drama in real life. And instead of just a conversation between a few people, when its on LJ, its open ended. It can go on for days or weeks or years, and it can include a hell of a lot of people.

And its easier to say what you're feeling online than it is to someone's face. Most of them are not people who have to see every day, or work with or ever come in contact with. The consequences for pissing them off are few.

And in re the whole friends of issue, I do understand it. I have friends who dont use Livejournal but who read mine and look at my info page. They dont know what friends/friends of means, and so they might look kindly on my having been friended by cock_sucker. My journal can be searched through google. My friends, family, employees, teachers could all find my journal. And to people who dont understand how livejournal works, the text on someone's userinfo page reflects directly on them. And even if you then explain to your friend or teacher or whatnot, many of them will ask, "well then why use this if you cant stop them?" A journal like cock_sucker reflects badly on the product and badly on the individual journals.

Especially since there are companies like greatest journal that allow users to control their friends of list, it really isnt that simple.