Used to

[pne]

What spelling do you use in the following sentences?

NB For the purposes of grammar, please answer with what you would say (i.e. I'm looking for best written approximation of spoken English, not "standard written English" answers).

Also, I see that the "When it started out" sentence is not a good example; please disregard the exact wording and choose what you would use for the negative of "used to". (Can anyone suggest a good example? "When we were kids, we didn't used to have this sort of thing", perhaps? I can't think of a good example off the top of my head.)

And in general, I'm not asking whether you'd use the exact wording in a given sentence, but trying to elicit which form of "used to" you'd use in a given situation.

[Poll #430362]

Comments

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

For:

"When it started out, it ___________ suck this badly."

something else = "didn't"

[node-ue.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[asciident]

Agreed.

[mendel.livejournal.com]

"When it started out, it didn't suck this badly."

For me, the first clause takes care of what "used to" would take care of otherwise. Without the first clause, I'd speak "it used to not suck this badly", split infinitive and all, but I doubt I'd ever put myself in a position where I had to write it like that.

[fweebles.livejournal.com]

Agree completely.

[karen2205]

When I was young

I'd never say that; I'd be more likely to say 'When I was little' or 'When I was younger'

This tool was most often

My pronounciation of 'used to' would be different here to the previous two sentences more 'use-d' than 'yust', but it would still be 'used to' I intended to say, not 'use to'.


"When it started out, it ___________ suck this badly."

I'd never ever say this sentence:-)

I'd be likely to say something like 'It wasn't this awful when it started'.

[pne.livejournal.com]

I'd never say that

Which is beside the point, though you probably realised that. (I'm looking at the "used to" bit.)

My pronounciation of 'used to' would be different here to the previous two sentences more 'use-d' than 'yust'

*nods* Bit of a red herring I put in :)

I'd never ever say this sentence:-)

Yah, it's not that great. I couldn't come up with anything better off-hand.

Pity you can't change poll entries' wordings.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

Collins Gem on English Grammar gives the example: I used not to like yoghurt but I enjoy it now. Which is not significantly better than your example TBH. ;-)

[pne.livejournal.com]

Ah! Thanks.

Again, pity that you can't change poll options, and I don't really want to scrap it and start over.

[sheepthief.livejournal.com]

"When it started out, it didn't suck this badly."

[crschmidt.livejournal.com]

I'm with the others, on "didn't" for "didn't suck this badly".

[jc.livejournal.com]

Yup, definitely a missed poll option there.

[pne.livejournal.com]

Not so much a missed poll option as an inadequate example, I thought.

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

I'm confused. I'm not sure how one would pronounce "used to" with the final "d" and initial "t". Since "to" is a clitic in this instance, making "used to" a single phonetic word, and English doesn't allow for geminate stops... (right?)

That's why I chose "use to"--I only say [d] once.

Or am I completely out there? Is "to" associated with the next word?

[pne.livejournal.com]

When I said "pick what you'd say, not what you'd write", I was going more by grammar (choice of words and/or word order) than spelling -- so not necessarily "yooceta".

To represent the phrase you use, do you think it would be better to write "used to", "use to", or something else? Perhaps a single word?

...does that help any?

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

That does clear it up, and I'll change my answer. I do think of the word I use as "used", not "use"--and I'll write it that way, too.

[pne.livejournal.com]

I had a similar time picking some of the choices as well (which, in part, led to this poll), since in "I used to go skiing" and "I didn't use[d] to go skiing", the "us___ to" part sounds identical to me (as you say, the |d| is not separately enunciated), yet from grammatical considerations, I'd be inclined to spell the latter "use" (on the pattern of things such as "I used the book" / "I didn't use the book"). But that leaves me with a verb form spelled "use" but pronounced with /s/ at the end, which feels strange.

Yet I'd still be inclined to say that if I use those constructions, they should be spelled "used" in the positive" and "use" in the negative.

[ubykhlives.livejournal.com]

Geminate stops do appear in English - but only across morpheme boundaries. I definitely say [just:u] rather than [justu]. That being said, I'd never release it twice and say [justtu]; that's just weird. :)

A great minimal pair to demonstrate this:

unaimed : unnamed

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

Well, [n] of course isn't a stop, but I can see what you mean, and you're right.

[ubykhlives.livejournal.com]

Some phonetics texts argue that it is - a nasal stop - but that's not important. :)

[me-and.livejournal.com]

"When I was young, I went go sledding every winter"

"That's because you're not used to it."

"This tool was most often used to open cans, when there was no can-opener around."

"Well, it was be better at one point, but it got worse very quickyl."

"When it started out, it didn't suck this badly much."

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

Actually now I think about this some more, in colloquial speech I'd say things like "Well it never used to suck so badly".

[tungol.livejournal.com]

I put "use to" where I pronounce [just@] (or [justu]) and "used to" where I pronounce [juzd t@] or [yuzd tu]. I actually tend to think of /just@/ as being a single word, while /juzd tu/ is simply a combination of "used" and "to". As far as I'm concerned, /just@/ does not contain a form of the verb "use".

For the "This program is really bad..." option, I put something else, because I think I'd say [just@], but you didn't put "use to" as an option. I might possibly also say "did use to" if I were being emphatic, but it seems less usual. For the "When it started out..." option, I put "Didn't use to", which I think is how I'm most likely to say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if I could also say "use to not". (Actually, I was thinking of conducting a bit of a survey on that point too.)

Not sure I answered in accordance with how you intended the poll, but hopefully I at least explained myself well enough to be useful.

[liv]

Negative of 'used to': I would say 'didn't use to' if I had to, but would avoid getting into a sentence that required me to use the phrase if at all possible.

Certainly with your example, if I had already used a construction to imply a past state, such as 'when it started out', I would think 'used to' superfluous. So even in the positive I would say 'when it started out, it was quite good' (rather than 'it used to be'). But that's just one avoidance strategy I might use. And in written English I would completely avoid 'did use to' or 'didn't use to'.

[timwi.livejournal.com]

I wonder if quickyl is acidic?

[pne.livejournal.com]

Unlikely, since -yl tends to name radicals and not entire molecules. (For example, is "ethyl" acidic?)

[timwi.livejournal.com]

Oh, so is quickyl the radical used in quicksand?

[pne.livejournal.com]

Something like that, I suppose. :p

[x-dingbat-x.livejournal.com]

"When it started out, it didn't suck this badly."

[blob.livejournal.com]

"Well, it was be better at one point, but it got worse very quickly."

"When it started out, it didn't suck this badly."

People who write "use to" make me want to cry.

[jordik.livejournal.com]

Seconded mostly. I seldom (if ever) use 'use(d) to'.

[pne.livejournal.com]

People who write "use to" make me want to cry

What about "didn't use to"?

After all, "didn't used to" makes about as much sense as saying "He didn't used the knife; he used the fork."

So if you're going to say "I didn't use to like liquorice, but I do now", then you should write it without a -d IMO if you're going to record your speech.

[blob.livejournal.com]

Naa, I just meant in sentences such as, "I use to do this". *shudder* Some people seem to think it's never "used". Obviously in sentences with "didn't" or "did", "use" is used. (Although I wouldn't say "I did use to", I'd just say "I used to".)

[blob.livejournal.com]

PS - The word "use(d)" looks weird now.

[pne.livejournal.com]

Heh, yeah.

[pne.livejournal.com]

Obviously in sentences with "didn't" or "did", "use" is used.

I didn't find that so obvious... I was really unsure what to put. I think this is because the "official" construction is "used not to" rather than "didn't use(d) to".

(Although I wouldn't say "I did use to", I'd just say "I used to".)

I might use it when I want to emphasise something. Consider the difference between "I cleaned up my room" and "I did clean up my room!"; the second might be a response to "You didn't clean up your room, so you can't go out tonight".

[blob.livejournal.com]

I'm not very good at explaining myself. :) When I said, "Obviously in sentences with 'didn't' or 'did', 'use' is used", I meant that if you're going to use the verb 'to use', you're not going to say 'I did(n't) used to', you're going to say 'I did(n't) use to'.

Yeah, good point about emphasis, although I think "Well, I USED to" has the same kind of emphasis/meaning as "Well, I did USE to" in spoken English. With other verbs, though, like 'to clean', I agree that the 'did' is needed to convey the emphasis.

[ubykhlives.livejournal.com]

I've noticed an interesting phenomenon among some speakers of Australian English. It's only among a *very* small minority of speakers; but for those speakers, when the previous word ends in a vowel, an epenthetic [n] is inserted, so it sounds like this:

"I nyused to do it when I was a kid."

It sounds odd, but I've heard this in the speech of at least two people, and neither of them has ever had any contact with the other.

[sovereigna.livejournal.com]

Australian English speaker here, (tho my parents are English so I speak more English English, than Australian English--) I've heard a couple of people do that before, but I never attributed it to the Australian English thing. I just figured they were lazy speakers, or just a way of speach, like someone with a lisp..

But now you've pointed it out to me I'll be analysing everyone I talk to! :P

[sovereigna.livejournal.com]

Well I'm not gonna sit here and list all my 'what I thinks'..

Just gonna say: You know when you start analysing a word and the more you do so the more alien it looks until it becomes confusing to consider the word?

I'm there on both 'use' and 'used' :P

[blob.livejournal.com]

Me too! I said that above. It's really bizarre how that happens.