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pne(Via Bruce Schneier's blog)
This is a surreal story about a guy who accidentally drops his iPod into an airplane toilet, prompting a full-scale terror alert.
(The URL may simply dump you unceremoniously on the front page of the forums rather than on the story in question. If so, click on "World of Warcraft", select an arbitrary forum and then an arbitrary thread. Once you've done so, visit the URL for the story again and you should be able to see it.)
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no subject
Date: Saturday, 26 August 2006 19:26 (UTC)Glancing through the thread I'm not sure I like his attitude. He might have been inconvenienced for 5 hours-- but so was everyone else on the plane and so were all the police officers. They don't know that it was an innocent accident. All they know is that everyone's life on the plane as well as all of the investigating officers lives are at risk.
The guy has the wrong attitude.
no subject
Date: Saturday, 26 August 2006 20:12 (UTC)Lives at risk? It was an iPod. It plays music.
I still think that people overreacted.
no subject
Date: Saturday, 26 August 2006 20:36 (UTC)It was an iPod, it does play music. They know that now. They didn't then. What if it wasn't a innocent iPod, what if it was something that just looked like an iPod?
Perhaps they did overreact. However I'd certainly prefer people overreact and be wrong, then underreact and be wrong.
Oh, btw, Now that I'm in the UK, Germany is on my to visit list within the next 6 - 12 months. I was hoping you, Stella and Amy might like to meet up and do something *touristy*-- well, touristy for me, not necessarily for you guys ;). I really can't wait to see that huge Pleasure Dome-- have you been there?
Can't wait! :D
no subject
Date: Saturday, 26 August 2006 21:03 (UTC)I think that you have a draw a line somewhere on the "extremely paranoid" - "insanely trusting" continuum, since if you take your line of reasoning to its extreme, you'd have security checks and strip searches at the entrance to every place where more than ten people congregate (schools, department stores, hospitals, train stations, ...). Not to mention all sorts of other inconveniences. Such as probably have to show your papers to a police officer who stops you in the street at least three times a day. If you were even brave enough to get out of your bed in the morning.
What if the handbag you're carrying contains an explosive device? I'm sure you won't mind if we make you carry all your belongings in your open hands where I can see them.
So if you don't want to go that route, you've got to be a little less paranoid and a little more trusting, and it seems that the balance has swung more to the paranoid end of the spectrum. We needn't go all the way to fluffy-bunny "All people are basically good at heart and would never, ever lie", but a bit less overreacting would seem to be in order.
I guess I'm also influenced by reading Schneier's blog semi-regularly; he occasionally says that many of the changes made surrounding air travel in the name of security don't help much (for example, where simply having the same name as the alias of a known terrorist can get you "randomly" selected for searches... which causes inconveniences to legitimate travelers, especially if they're not senators who can pull some strings in Washington to get their names off the list, and provides absolutely no defence against unknown terrorists). Or even the focus on air travel: the next terrorist attack might well be on a subway system. Or a football stadium. Or whatever. And tightening security on all football stadiums wouldn't help either as the next attack might be something different again. Just as "Flying while Arab" won't match Americans who sympathise with the terrorist organisation du jour.
I was hoping you, Stella and Amy might like to meet up and do something *touristy*-- well, touristy for me, not necessarily for you guys ;)
Trust me -- the locals are usually the last to see the sights! I wonder how many Parisians have been inside the Louvre or up the Eiffel Tower. Or how many Hamburgers have taken a boat trip around the harbour or seen the inside of the Town Hall. (The only reason I've been inside is when I was showing my pen-friend from France around... similarly with St. Michael's church, which is nearly a symbol for Hamburg.)
So -- sure! Let me know when-abouts you'll be coming. We might even be able to put you up, if you don't mind sleeping on an inflatable mattress in the living room.
I really can't wait to see that huge Pleasure Dome-- have you been there?
I'm not quite sure what you mean; I suppose you're referring to the "Hamburger Dom" (http://www.hamburger-dom.de/calender.html)? Which has no dome, and I'm not quite sure why it's called that; it's an amusement park/funfair that takes place three times a year on the Heiligengeistfeld (Holy Spirit Field).
If so, then yes, I've been there, though not very often.
How long did you want to be in Hamburg for? Anything specific you wanted to see while you were here?
As I mentioned before, I've heard that the harbour trips are pretty much a tourist staple here. (With several companies vying for being the "original" or "best" harbour trip....) So that could be an option. Alternatively, using the public transport boats to go from Finkenwerder to the main port at St. Pauli Landungsbrücken is quite a bit cheaper and will let you see some of the River Elbe and what's on either side, though of course it won't go into little side canals. But since it's a nice trip, the boat is packed with people at times such as Saturdays around noon, especially in summer.
no subject
Date: Sunday, 27 August 2006 00:05 (UTC)***
One of those harbour trips sounds really nice. I'm confused about the dome thing, I saw it on a travel show in Australia. It was apparently this huge dome which had a beach, places for surfing, and rainforst in it. It looked amazing. Apparently in winter because of the difference in temperature between the outside and the inside and condensation buildup, if they didn't clear it away it could actually *rain*. But I've gone looking for it and can't find it anywhere! :S But I've misplaced my *germany* list, and I'm pretty sure I have the proper name for it on there..... when I find it.
Not sure when I'll be coming yet, but I'll definitely let you know closer.
These are a few of the places I really want to see, but just ones I've remembered off the top of my head
Neushwanstein Castle
Fairytale rd (it might have a different name, but that's what I'm remembering it as at the moment)
The Black Forest
Cologne Cathedral
Oktoberfest (will have to wait for that, although lucky Kharma's going to that this year! :D)
Marburg
The Sony Center
The Bach House/Monument in Eisenach
Beethoven House Museum
Have you ever been to any of these places? Anything else you particularly recommend?
You travel quite a bit, right? How many countries have you been to? What particularly stood out for you that you recommend?
security
Date: Sunday, 27 August 2006 13:08 (UTC)It is. Especially when people blame you when they think that an accident could have been prevented "if only" this or that additional restriction or precaution had been in place, and you have say that you took all reasonable precautions and then have to defend your interpretation of "reasonable". Because it's always a tradeoff. (As another example, I'm sure that both the number and the severity of car accidents could be reduced if cars were limited to a maximum speed of, say, 10 mph. Yet the fact that this precaution is possible doesn't mean that it's likely to be implemented -- again, a convenience vs security trade-off.)
Re: security
Date: Sunday, 27 August 2006 16:43 (UTC)Just out of curiosity, of course. I don't want their job either! lol
visit to Germany / Europe
Date: Sunday, 27 August 2006 14:12 (UTC)That doesn't ring any bell, though I don't doubt such a thing may exist. Do you remember whether it was in Hamburg or elsewhere in Germany?
These are a few of the places I really want to see, but just ones I've remembered off the top of my head
Wow, that's a fair list... how long were you planning on spending in Germany? Because while it's not the size of Australia, it's not tiny, either.... (TBH, your list reminds me a bit of the stereotypical American tourist who wants to "do Europe in a week" and flits from place to place without really being able to stay anywhere for more than a couple of hours.)
Have you ever been to any of these places?
No, I haven't. (I've been on a small part of the Oktoberfest site, but about three weeks "too early". That was about the closest I got to any of the places.)
Anything else you particularly recommend?
Berlin, perhaps? See government buildings and stroll down the "Ku'damm"?
And just outside the border, I enjoyed seeing the Rhine waterfall at Schaffhausen in Switzerland when we went there with Stella's dad.
You travel quite a bit, right? How many countries have you been to? What particularly stood out for you that you recommend?
Ah... that's a difficult question to answer. I've been to a fair number of countries, but most of them were for a school trip, visiting a penpal, or attending a conference, so I had a fairly narrow reason for being in that country and typically didn't see much of the place outside my primary purpose.
With that caveat, I've been to England, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, France, Austria, Switzerland, Greece, and Cyprus (and been through Belgium en route to other places).
But the only places I've been to in anything like a touristy sense are England, Switzerland, and Paris.
In England, I liked Stonehenge (back when I visited it as a child, I think one could even walk between the standing stones; I'm told there's a big fence around the entire monument so you can only look at the stones from afar, except for a few days each year), and visiting various castles, monasteries, and churches with my father (though I can't think of anything specific).
In Paris, about the only thing I saw was the Jardin des Tuileries, a big garden stretch leading up to the Louvre; but then, I only had half a day for myself (I was attending a conference starting that evening but had taken a sleeper train which had arrived in the morning).
In Switzerland, I liked taking funiculars to the tops of mountains and enjoying the view; particularly in the Appenzell area with the Alpstein, the beginnings of the "real" Alps, which is not far from where Stella's father lives and has several peaks accessible by funicular.
I also liked the Appenzell Heritage Museum with its showcasing of life in Appenzell a couple of hundred years ago -- and where you had to stoop to enter some rooms because Appenzellers tended to be fairly short and so some of the rooms in the restored house had pretty low ceilings and doorways!
And for geek value, I liked going to Liechtenstein, since it's such a small country -- I went there mostly to have been there (and to get a stamp in my passport, which they do for a small fee at the tourism bureau, since there aren't any border controls between Liechtenstein and Switzerland), rather than to see anything specific. And I would have liked to go on the "joke trail" in Appenzell, but didn't have the opportunity either time I've been to Switzerland (though the second time, I did visit both endpoints when I took a train trip around Eastern Switzerland (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pne/sets/72057594111255615/)).
In the end, though, I suppose it depends on what you like to see when you go abroad (museums, shopping, monuments, mountains, beaches, ....).
Re: visit to Germany / Europe
Date: Sunday, 27 August 2006 17:18 (UTC)I really don't expect to see everything in one trip. And I don't expect to go to Germany only once. I think I would be disappointed if I DID do everything in one trip, then there would be nothing to look forward to the next time, or the time after that. ;) That was just a list of things I want to see, and depending on what is around the area I visit at that time would be the starting points for that visit.
I really don't remember whether the dome was in Hamberg or not. For some reason I had it in my mind that it was, but I might be (and by your reaction- probably) wrong. But that's okay, Germany isn't going anywhere ;).
You do have quite a list yourself there, and some good ideas. I know I need to break my *country* lists down better into *trips* and probably working from there would be an idea- sooner rather than later. The only problem is, the more you look into a country, the more things you want to see, then the longer the trip becomes/ the more trips become required to see everything! lol
I'd probably come out of the Ammenzell Museum with a huge migraine though! I'm always banging my head on low ceilings and doorways in those sorts of places!
I still haven't quite decided what my *thing* is while travelling.
Beaches don't quite do it for me, but they really should be seen to compare.
Shopping: depends- I'm not a huge shopper.
Monuments: again it depends. Some I'll be unimpressed with, but some completely blow me away. (Probably depends on the style- The Cologne Cathedral will definitely blow me away!)
Museums: it depends what type and whether or not some of my favourite artists have work showing and mountains- STUNNING! :D
I love old-fashioned architecture, ancient history, castles and well old stuff! I'm not so much into the modern history and I'll skip anything war related unless in the war people fought with swords instead of guns.
And something like that train trip around switzerland would be a must-do at some stage. Li'l Sis & BIL did one when they went over there and loved it! :D
How long were you planning on spending in Germany? Because while it's not the size of Australia, it's not tiny, either..
You kidding? It's like half the size of New South Wales! That to me is TINY! LOL! :P
Wadden Sea
Date: Sunday, 27 August 2006 19:23 (UTC)One of the characteristics of the Wadden Sea is its extensive mud flats, which are exposed at low tide; in some cases, these let you walk from one island to another or from the mainland to an island. The two routes I'm aware of are from Amrum to Föhr and from the mainland (near Cuxhaven) to Neuwerk (an island which, strangely enough, belongs to Hamburg, even though it lies quite a distance away from it). The second route also has horse-drawn carts and ships so you can go there on foot and return in a cart, or go there by cart and take the ferry back, etc. (Depending on the timing.)
I've only taken the Amrum-Föhr route (well, at least two routes, since the routes occasionally change due to the fact that the Priele -- water-bearing "rivers" which exist even at low tide and can be unpredictably deep and swift -- occasionally shift their position and so the safe route has to change). So far, I've only gone in groups, with a guide, though I believe that you can also do it on your own since there are sticks at regular intervals marking the route, as long as you pick your departure time appropriately.
no subject
Date: Wednesday, 30 August 2006 10:25 (UTC)no subject
Date: Sunday, 27 August 2006 15:28 (UTC)My best friend, M. Husain, is on the no-fly list. So is her son, who's six months old.
no subject
Date: Sunday, 27 August 2006 16:44 (UTC)And this is the kind of thing I meant. How does excluding a six-month-old make us all safer?
no subject
Date: Thursday, 31 August 2006 03:27 (UTC)If I found some discarded object that looked like an iPod, I don't think I'd worry too much. It could be a bomb in disguise, but it's unlikely enough that I'd take my chances. :)