The strange grammar of "with"

[pne]

I recently realised that "with" in English takes a regular objective-case pronoun, rather than a reflexive one: we say I'm taking my umbrella with me and Did he take his coat with him when he went?, when what might be expected is *I'm taking my umbrella with myself and *Did he take his coat with himself when he went?.

After all, consider what seem similar situations: we don't say *I stuck a needle in me by mistake or *Did you buy the book for you?. (On the other hand, it just occurred to me that I do say I dragged a sled behind me, not *...behind myself.)

Comments

[conuly]

Actually, I do say the first of your given examples of things-we-don't-say. And I don't think it's entirely just me being weird, I think I've heard it elsewhere.

[elgrande.livejournal.com]

If I remember correctly, other prepositions denoting place are similar. I think people would say "Look at the text in front of you" rather than "in front of yourself. On the other hand, "with" is also used with a reflexive pronoun in certain contexts as in "She's very pleased with herself".

[pne.livejournal.com]

Ah, that makes sense; it certainly fits the "in front" and "behind" situations.

I wouldn't have considered "with" to be a locative preposition, but its grammar does seem similar.

On the other hand, "with" is also used with a reflexive pronoun in certain contexts as in "She's very pleased with herself".

Also true.

[pthalo]

i think with is a different sort of thing from in or for. at least, it's very different in Hungarian, the language of 1000 cases. (mild exaggeration). In English, the cases are so vague that yes you can define them but except for pronouns it's "house", "house", and "house" which means I pay a lot less attention to cases in English and have to think in Hungarian to figure out which case I'm using in English.

[muckefuck.livejournal.com]

But you can't define English grammar by reference to Hungarian grammar any more than you can do the opposite. English uses objective pronouns where the grammar requires them; case determines their selection, but it's not the only factor and can be overridden by other considerations.

[muckefuck.livejournal.com]

*I stuck a needle in me by mistake or *Did you buy the book for you?

Both grammatical IMD. I'd have to give some thought about when I use these pronouns and when I use the reflexives (or cheat and look at what the Cambridge Grammar has to say).