On possibly adopting a child

[pne]

Stella and I had been talking recently about a possible sibling for Amy.

She has the feeling that it's not the right time now to have another child, but has been wondering recently whether this is due, in small or large part, to the fact that it might not be the right time to physically bear another child rather than specifically due to the presence of a child in our family.

She'd been considering for a while getting a planned C-section if she did have another child at some point, to avoid getting a repeat of last time. But when she thought about the prospect a bit more seriously the other day, she had a dream about bleeding to death during the birth anyway and that made her think about whether the birth part was a problem.

So she asked me how I felt about adopting.

Several years ago, I wouldn't have liked the prospect -- I think I would have felt that an adopted child would not be "mine", or at least that I wouldn't be able to treat it the same as Amy. However, I seem to have changed attitudes on that, since I'm no longer specifically against it.

If we did adopt, I'd prefer a child as young as possible, so that it'd grow up in our family and essentially only know us as its parents. (Emotionally, that is -- I mean, it would form a bond to us in the same way as a natural-born child, rather than, say, a five-year-old who has relationships already and where it would probably be more difficult for all around to treat them the same.)

(This is still all hypothetical at this moment, BTW.)

I wonder what our chances would be. I would imagine that healthy white infants would be in most demand and, therefore, most difficult to "obtain", but Stella said she saw a web page saying that Hamburg had about one child for every three potential adoptive families, whereas other parts of Germany have ratios of one to five or one to seven, so the waiting list might not be that long here.

We also talked about foster care (? - Pflegekind), but I think I'd prefer a child that was mine. Some families do have foster children for years and years, but others only have them for a few years or even less, and I think that would be harder to integrate into a family if you know it might go away again in a few years' time. Basically, it's not what I'd be looking for.

One thing I worried about was what other people (e.g. at church or in our family) would think or how they would treat the child. I think if we did adopt a child, we wouldn't want it treated any other way, and I worry that some others might keep reminding it that it's not our "proper" child. But then, I often worry too much about things so it's hard to know when I'm being paranoid and when I'm merely being cautious.

(A friend of ours suggested that Stella not attend church for a couple of months before reappearing with an infant, essentially faking a pregnancy, so that people would treat the child like a natural child -- but I doubt that kind of deception would hold water for very long. Not to mention that I imagine you usually don't get several months' notice that there's an infant who could be placed with your family.)

---

Do any of you have experiences with adopting? (You were adopted; you adopted a child; your parents adopted a child before or after you were born; you know people who adopted or were adopted; etc.)

Comments

[ifeedformula.livejournal.com]

The only thing I can say is that I hope you get as lucky as Jess & Brian (my SIL and her hubby) did. They'd been talking about going to Russia or China or somewhere abroad to adopt an infant when one literally fell into their laps. A friend from church said her cousin had gotten pregnant and didn't want to keep the baby, so would J & B like to adopt it? They discussed it and decided in the end that it was the right thing to do. Eli couldn't wait the entire 9 mos of typical gestation and popped out at around 5 1/2 mos gestation.
Jess and Bri spent all their free time at the hospital and now, at age 3 1/2, you'd never know Eli was a preemie. I mean, yeah, he's a bit smaller than other kids his age, but other than that he's fine. Jess and Bri still keep in contact with the birth mother (which I find kind of..weird. Risky even, but hey..not my kid, not my decision to make).

[pne.livejournal.com]

Funny that you mentioned a friend from church -- we had briefly thought that if we were in the US, we could possibly have got an "LDS baby" through LDS Social Services/LDS Family Services.

But they don't have that here in Germany, as far as I know (and there aren't enough members to make it worthwhile, I imagine).

On the other hand, apparently (http://www.providentliving.org/ses/adoptivecouples/criteria/0,12471,2192-1,00.html) you'd need a current temple recommend, so that would rule me out at the moment.

[jpallan.livejournal.com]

I adopted my older daughter, she was my stepdaughter. I became involved in her life when she was 9 months old and living in the custody of her paternal grandmother, because of her birth mother's problems. I legally adopted her when she was three.

She's of similar ethnic background and from the same region of the country, so there weren't cross-cultural differences and most people don't know. We are extremely open about the adoption with her, and we have also attempted to encourage her mother to visit her and vice versa. (With mixed results. No hostility, but her mother is bitter about the adoption, I think, and avoids seeing us or talking to us.)

We discuss it, but mostly it's not a major part of her identity, at least at this point.

[aliciagayle.livejournal.com]

Well, I think it's a good idea. Because you're helping a kid and that kid's parents, or sometimes just helping the kid. (Although the kid's parents may be relieved.) But mostly the kid, in that case.

jpallan: "How do you feel about being adopted?"
Relieved, I guess? Relieved about myself. I don't know how to explain it in words.

jpallan: "Do you wish you'd gotten to stay with [your birth mother]?"
No, because she couldn't take care of me.

jpallan: "Do you think other people should adopt children?"
Yes, unless they're mean people.

jpallan: "Do you think people should work harder at making it possible for their kids to keep their kids?"
If parents weren't able to take care of their kids, then their kids should be adopted. But I think we should work hard to keep parents from losing their kids, because then the adoption stage wouldn't have to go, it'd just be a family that's doing okay.

jpallan: "What about the people who decide to give the baby up for adoption when they're pregnant?"
That's just for the kid, so it makes a lot of sense. Even though I wouldn't like them to have to go through all that, it's still better for the kid if people can't take care of the kid.

[nitaq.livejournal.com]

My colleague adopted a child.
He had it first as a foster child for some years, until it was decided that the child was free for adoption. Now he's got a second foster child, but he doesn't know yet, if he'll adopt that one too.
It seems a lot easier to get a foster child from what he told me. Lots of mothers are not willing to part with the child quite yet, so it's rather difficult to find very young adoptable children.
They also have very strict rules on what you have to be able to offer the child. If you're too old, you won't get one either.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

I know tons and tons and tons of people who have adopted children. People from church, fellow grad students, co-workers, friends of my mom's... Two of my current co-workers have--in fact, one of them adopted four siblings! (At the time, they were 2, 3½, 4½, and 5½.) I have to say, honestly, that most of your statements don't make any sense to me and I don't think they'd make sense to most of the people I know. Is there some sort of stigma to adopting a child in Germany?

The only person I know personally who's my age who's adopted is my ex-boyfriend, but that was a special situation. When he was 7, his mom (a single teenage mother) married a man who absolutely despised him and the psychologist they consulted thought it would help the relationship if the stepfather adopted him. It didn't work, the stepfather remained crazy-abusive, the mother eventually left him, and as soon as my ex turned 18, he changed his surname. To the first name of his half sister, actually.

[elgrande.livejournal.com]

Not that I know of. I'm also a bit surprised at what pne in his entry (especially the bit about faking a pregnancy). But then again I often misjudge people as more open-minded than they actually are, i.e. there may be a stigma about adopting children in Germany and I just never noticed.

[asciident]

I'd have to second the first half of this comment. I know lots of people who are adopted, and most of them are fairly-to-very open about it. I'm surprised pne's thinking about this so much in terms of stigma.

[lexabear.livejournal.com]

My best friend was adopted, and none of their family ever had any problems integrating her. I believe she was 2-3 years when adopted, maybe, but I'm not sure (she says she has one or two pre-adoption memories, and that's about the minimum age she could remember anything). She's a different ethnicity as well (run-of-the-mill white parents; she's at least part Middle Eastern), but that also didn't pose any problems. Her mother had a boy who is 2 years younger than her, and they consider themselves full siblings. The family was open about her being adopted. From what she's said, she's grateful she was adopted because she knows her bio-parents wouldn't have been able to care for her.

I've heard the "it wouldn't be 'mine'" objection to adopting before and never really understood it. I think it puts too much emphasis on genetics. IMO, biology isn't what makes families; love is (corny as that sounds). If you're seriously considering it, I'm sure there are adoption communities you could get more info on.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I think if anyone were to try to treat your child as anything less than your child, you could just politely object that you would like them to be considerate to your son/daughter - which is a good way to point out that it's your child.

I have seven nieces and nephews. I don't generally make the distinction that 2 of them are through a half-sibling and three of them are through a marriage and thus have no bloodline to me, but only to my sister-in-law, and this is because well, my half-sister is my sister. And my sister-in-law's children are my brother's children. He considers them to be his children; he's been raising them for most of their lives. They are his kids, so they are my nieces and nephews.

I would be very upset if anyone considered some of them to be more or less my nieces or nephews or tried to consider any of the connections that are not pure blood somehow less important.

I remember thinking about it recently because I was mentioning how one of my nieces was such a strong-willed child. She was so stubborn and certain of herself at 6, and now at 16, she still is, but also now she's becoming very responsible and competent. It's great to see. And someone pointed out that they imagine it runs in my family... some sort of comment that made it clear they were remarking on genetics, so I mentioned that there is no genetic link. I'm glad I don't normally make the family tree details clear. I would never want to imply that any of them weren't just as much my niece or nephew. I only outline the details here to point out that people should accept these things.

I know there is no full adoption with no link to either parent involved, but I only have the experiences that I have.

[nyssa.livejournal.com]

I personally am a big fan of adoption - there are so many children out there that desperately need a loving home. I've known lots of adopted children, all of whom lived perfectly normal lives. They might as well have been their parents' biological child, for all anybody on the outside knew.

But that's America. Adoption here is relatively common. It might be different in Germany. But if anybody has a problem with it, just remind them that yes, the kid IS your kid, no matter who actually conceived the child.

[bride.livejournal.com]

I have no experience and not much to share with you on this. Only that I've had similar thoughts about the life and times after adopting. Down to the not wanting people to know, not wanting people to treat the child as less than my child and even "disappearing for a while" beforehand (but I can't because I have to work).

I just wanted to say that I completely understand where you're coming from with the fear of the stigma from the community. I think LJ users (or at least those who would be on your Friends list) are more open-minded about things than the general population and you're quite justified to feel that way.

I also worry about whether the child will love and fully accept me as a parent.

[missysedai.livejournal.com]

One thing I worried about was what other people (e.g. at church or in our family) would think or how they would treat the child.

This bothers me. What kind of horrible people are they, that they would think something wrong with taking in a child who needed a loving, caring home? Why would they treat the child with anything but joy that s/he had parents who would care for her/him? Adoption is an act of love. People who have problems with that need to re-examine themselves.

I am godmother to two adopted children. I think they've got the best opinion on adoption ever. Ask either what it means to be adopted, and they will respond "It means that my parents REALLY WANTED me."

[pne.livejournal.com]

My worry is not that they'll disapprove of me for taking in a child, or of the child for being a worse person -- but that they'll treat it as "not Philip's and Stella's real child". That is, that they'll call the relationship (not me or them) into question.

Even while professing to say that yes, adoption is about love, and sure, Philip loves John/Mary, just as they might love and cherish a kitten they "adopted" from a shelter, and the kitten is oh so much better off than it was in the shelter, and Philip is such a good person for caring for John/Mary. But that doesn't make John/Mary Philip's "real" child -- he/she is "only" an adopted one.

And that would be uncomfortable for me, and probably for the kid, too.

Does that make more sense?

[missysedai.livejournal.com]

That is, that they'll call the relationship (not me or them) into question.

That, Philip, is what I would call THEIR problem. No, seriously. People who do that are horrible people. They don't understand that blood ties are not what makes a family.

It would be a pity if you decided not to adopt a child in need of a stable, loving home because other people might be assholes about it. You've always struck me as a kind and generous person, and you can offer a lot to a child.

[pthalo]

I think adoption is a wonderful idea. I know that older children are less desirable and harder to integrate into a family, but they need a good family that much more.

I'm not sure I understand why church members would treat an adopted child differently. I think adopting a child has even more merit than birthing one. Both are meritorious things: one brings a new soul into this world, an indestructable soul that will come to know God and be a part of God's family. The other takes care of a soul that is already in this world, helps one of God's children to know and love God and gives the child a chance for a life that the child would not lead otherwise. (This is part of why I'm for adopting older children, since they have less of a chance than babies do.)

Raising children is God's work, raising your own, or raising another's child, someone who recognised that they couldn't care for their child as their child needs to be cared for.

[pthalo]

(This comment posted in lynx! (not that anyone in the world cares))

[pne.livejournal.com]

I know that older children are less desirable and harder to integrate into a family, but they need a good family that much more.

It's unlikely that we'd adopt a child older than Amy is, since I think it would be unfair to her to suddenly have an older sibling -- the oldest child always has a special status IMO and suddenly "dethroning" her from that position would be odd.

[pthalo]

Yeah, that does make sense. It might be fun to have a twin sister for her, someone she'd always be in the same grade with, but you're right, it seems more natural to get a younger sibling.

[fridoline.livejournal.com]

Neighbohrs of ours have an adopted child of a different ethnic background. The boy was adopted at birth. And although it is obvious that he is not the biological child of his parents, he "belongs" to the family.

Perhaps at first it is clear that the adopted child is not a "real" child, but I think as time goes by, the child becomes so much an established part of the family that it becomes a "real" child - even in the perception of outsiders.

From what I have heard, it is usually easier for the adopted child to cope with its heritage if its parents are open about it. Secrecy about that often fosters doubt and hostility. But if the child knows the facts, it can accept them and understand them. It does not have to be an entirely open adoption with visiting the birth-mother, but a report of when and why and how and perhaps even a picture can help. And a meeting when the child has reached a certain age, if desired.

That is what I got from listening to people with adopted kids or those who were adopted themselves.

As for LDS Services, I suppose it would be possible if one were willing to go to the US to pick of the child. Possibly more legal hassle because of visa etc.

[elgrande.livejournal.com]

"Possibly more legal hassle because of visa etc."

And from the view of German courts and administrative authorities, the adoption would have to be valid under the law that governs the general effects of marriage, which would be German law because Stella and pne don't have a common nationality and their common habitual residence is in Germany. So it might require some effort to make sure that you follow the German requirements of how to adopt a child when you are abroad.

(Article 22 I 2 EGBGB (http://dejure.org/gesetze/EGBGB/22.html), Article 14 I EGBGB (http://dejure.org/gesetze/EGBGB/14.html))

[styleygeek.livejournal.com]

Hey, I ended up here via a thread at Present Simple where someone pointed to your livejournal for a different entry entirely. Just wanted to say that I am adopted, my brother is adopted, and I have 9 adopted cousins, and no one has ever treated me or my brother differently because we are adopted. To begin with, most people don't know, I guess. But when we were first adopted, Mum and Dad say they don't remember people treating it as any different from a birth in the family.

It might be different for older children who are adopted, rather than babies, or for kids from a different ethnic group, so that people can tell on sight that they were adopted. There are a lot of internet sites and forums about international adoption and these issues if you did go that route, but I get the impression you are thinking about a child of your own ethnic group anyway. I still recommend you do some reading around the internet: particular on forums where adoptees discuss what being adopted has meant for their identity. Not everyone feels the same way I do!

Incidentally, my cousins who are adopted are from the Philippines, so they look different from my (white) uncle and aunt, and yes, that has led to some awkward conversations in the street where a stranger says, "are they yours?" to my aunt, and she replies "yes", and then some rude people go on to say, "Really yours? Or adopted." But she says that has only ever happened with strangers: people in the family, church and friends have never treated the kids any differently from their non-adopted siblings.