Philip Newton&#39;s journal

<3 and things. not a lot else to say.

you're cool, you know.

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Thanks, Jane.

I appreciate it.

It's hard to be cool, though, when I feel so insecure about social graces.

I have asked, now, but the only reaction was a little smile, so I still have no idea what's up.

But... thanks for your comment. And sorry for spoiling the complement by saying negative things about myself.

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dude, how many times have I been given a compliment and completely gone all negative and 'you're talking shite' and the like? There's no need to be sorry for it, cos I know exactly what it's like. Most people have problems with social graces and talking to you is for them as hard as talking to them is to you. That sentence needs reading 3 times to understand it lol :p

oh, and they smiled. could have been a lot worse ;)

x

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pleiades829.livejournal.com

Don't know what happened, but I can totally emphathize. It happens to me a lot, especially when I'm talking to my mother in law. {{{{{HUGS}}}}}

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Most people have problems with social graces and talking to you is for them as hard as talking to them is to you.

You think?

I always think that the majority deal with stuff like that more easily than I do... that I'm in a minority of people who put their foot in their mouth because they can't evaluate social situations well.

oh, and they smiled. could have been a lot worse ;)

I suppose. Though the suspense was still there since I still didn't know whether they thought what I had done was bad or not... or whether the asking was bad or not.

But yeah. It could have been a lot worse.

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You think?

yep. you're not the only one, honestly. Lots and lots of people have just the same difficulties.. I guess some are better at hiding it than others. I'm not good at hiding it :p

I suppose. Though the suspense was still there since I still didn't know whether they thought what I had done was bad or not... or whether the asking was bad or not.

Stop being so paranoid. (I tell people what to do in a sharp way like that all the time. Ask

fractal_sutra :p) If they thought it was that bad then I think it would be quite clear.

Honestly, everything will be fine. Stop panicking, and stop being so readily down on yourself. You can't be that bad or you wouldn't have a wifey or so many friends. You are an intelligent and articulate person and most people can see that. I read your letter (man that was long) and I've sent something back but it's not a proper reply.. the note explains why.

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I read your letter

Oh good! I was wondering whether it had been delivered since I posted it behind the new office... where there used to be some PO Boxes as well but they had been dismantled. So I thought that maybe the post box might have been discontinued as well and was just standing there but wouldn't be emptied.

...maybe I worry too much.

I'll look forward to your reply, then, when I come back from my sister's wedding on Thursday evening!

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angelsk.livejournal.com

You think?

You're not the only one to feel socially awkward... I think everyone does once in a while.

*hugs* n stuff.

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Thanks, Jo.

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subbes

Dude. If in doubt, and you're friends with the person, ask them about it. It's hard to learn without feedback.

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meeps-hitchie.livejournal.com

Well, I usually grace back. :)

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ubykhlives.livejournal.com

Social graces... pfft. I've never been particularly skilled with them either.

I agree with all the others who have commented. You're a pretty cool person. I've always believed that someone's character should be what people make their judgments on, and not their behaviour in certain situations. And from what I know of you, your character seems in place and functioning perfectly.

No-one should ever ask for more than that you be yourself. :)

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joyitude.livejournal.com

Seconded.

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Hee. We're so totally the same, you know. But then again, maybe LiveJournal is some sort of gathering point for our kind of species. :-)

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While I totally agree with this, unfortunately it's not that easy. People don't tend to be willing to give honest feedback when it's negative. I know you said "if you're friends with the person", but even then, or perhaps especially then, those friends will be reluctant for fear of hurting your feelings by giving negative feedback. This is a largely subconscious/intuitive process, so telling them "don't worry, you won't hurt my feelings" doesn't actually help. They will still feel uncomfortable telling you off, so they won't.

That said, of course not all people are like that. If you can find someone who is truly helpful in this matter, all the better! But it is important not to be fooled by dishonest positive feedback.

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sovereigna.livejournal.com

When you figure that out can you let me know?

I have the social graces of a _________. (Fill in the blank any way you see fit).

*hugs*

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I've sent something back but it's not a proper reply.. the note explains why.

Got it now.

Thanks a lot for sending the note, Jane, and for your moral/emotional support.

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We're so totally the same, you know.

Yeah, I know... it's part of why I initially disliked you, I guess: some of the faults I saw in you I realised were faults I had myself, so it was like having someone point out my own faults to me, or like having a mirror held up to you. Took me a while to deal with that.

I like to think I've got over it now.

But then again, maybe LiveJournal is some sort of gathering point for our kind of species.

Quite possibly -- after all, interacting with a computer is probably easier for us than interacting with "real people", even if we're interacting with real people by means of a computer.

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This is a largely subconscious/intuitive process, so telling them "don't worry, you won't hurt my feelings" doesn't actually help. They will still feel uncomfortable telling you off, so they won't.

*nods*

I also think that many people have difficulty putting the "rules of society" into words, so if you ask them, "Did I commit a faux pas by doing $FOO?", they may not be able to answer -- or, if they can, they may not be able to answer the subsequent question, "What, specifically, was inappropriate in my behaviour?" and/or "How should I behave in such situations in the future?" since for them, the rules are built in.

Or so I believe; occasionally people tell me that even "normal" people are unsure of how to act in a given situation.

But yeah. If you're unsure of how to act appropriately, it's not always easy to get guidance, and if you're unsure whether you acted inappropriately and why, some people may not be able to tell you (or so I think). Makes things harder for "us".

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People don't tend to be willing to give honest feedback when it's negative.

I also think that people seem to have difficulty receiving honest feedback when it's negative -- or even hearing a negative opinion on some things.

For example, when someone posts a picture of themselves, they may get a number of "Ooh, you're pretty/handsome!" responses, but if I feel that they look plain, then I'm not sure what to say... since I have the feeling that if I say "You look homely/ugly", they'll be hurt... but the "you're pretty" people and I are both merely voicing our opinions, so I have a hard time understanding what the difference is.

Similarly, if someone posts a point of view, there might be a number of people saying, "I totally agree with you on this", yet if I feel like posting disagreement, I'm not sure whether it'll be well received.

It's as if people are soliciting opinions from other people only so long as those opinions are positive, and it strikes me as not helpful, since I imagine that that sort of thing will give them a skewed view of what "people in general" think.

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it's quite ok sweetie :)

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heh. got your message. I'm sorry for missing the call, I'm really bad at having myself and my phone in the same place so I hardly ever pick up calls =P

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I also think that many people have difficulty putting the "rules of society" into words

At the time when I was first suspected to have Asperger's Syndrome, I was shown a website which attempted to formulate some of those unwritten rules. It was pretty useless; almost all of it was full of uncertainties ("in some situations, XYZ might happen, but then again, it might not"), and the only things that weren't like that were rules that even I was already aware of (e.g. "there is an unwritten rule against the explicit discussion of these unwritten rules").

This, as well as various other pieces of experience with people since then, has led me to believe that there aren't really such rigorous rules; "we" probably expect them to be more formal, more logical, more consistent or more predictable than they really are. Which leads me to the next point:

they may not be able to answer [...] since for them, the rules are built in.

Yeah. Kind of like asking a native speaker about their language's grammar rules. :-)

But it may also be because, due to the non-rigorosity of the rules, there is no single definite way to handle a given situation "correctly". There are several, and (as unfair as it may seem) they depend on the personality of the person you are talking to! :/

If it's any consolation to you: I was under the firm belief that I had improved my social skills significantly since the Asperger's Syndrome theory emerged four or five years ago, and yet I still make a number of these significant faux-pas. And it's a different one every time...

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I suppose people think that if your opinion is going to make someone feel bad, you might as well keep quiet, so when you don't, they assume you intended to hurt them since they can't think of any other intention behind it, even when you're honest.

Interestingly, this is not symmetric: the positive opinions, including the dishonest ones!, will be [per|re]ceived as positive feedback and not as "aw, you're only saying that to make be feel better!". Unless they're modest, but if they were, they probably wouldn't have asked for opinions in the first place. Does this make sense?

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Yeah, I know... it's part of why I initially disliked you, I guess: some of the faults I saw in you I realised were faults I had myself, so it was like having someone point out my own faults to me, or like having a mirror held up to you. Took me a while to deal with that.

This reminds me of a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where William Riker gets duplicated. (Warning: assignable pronouns coming up...) Knowing that the other Riker² is the same person as him¹, he¹ knows that all the faults he² exhibits are also his¹ own.

But I'm not a duplicated you, so I find it remarkable that you realised your faults from mine. There have been people in the past whom I disliked (and hence avoided) and only much later realised that I had many of those same faults that I disliked about them.

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I was a bit amused at your message -- at least it was honest :) "I probably won't call you back but you can leave a message anyway", or something like that.

Took me a bit to understand your accent at first, though.

Maybe I'll call you again another time and have more luck then!

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I suppose people think that if your opinion is going to make someone feel bad, you might as well keep quiet

Ah, the "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" rule that children are taught?

I guess that explains a little people's reactions.

I still think that this sort of thing gives people a rather skewed view of what people think.

Even if all the positive comments are honest and sincere, merely suppressing negative ones will skew the picture, even without any additional fake-positive comments.

Seems a bit bizarre to me, but then, the rules of society don't always makes sense to me anyway.

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I find it remarkable that you realised your faults from mine.

It did take me quite a while; at first, I was merely irritated by some of your behaviour but didn't realise that what exacerbated my irritation was the fact that I exhibited that behaviour as well -- this realisation took time.

There have been people in the past whom I disliked (and hence avoided) and only much later realised that I had many of those same faults that I disliked about them.

*nods*

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haha, yeah. It's a very me thing to say =D

thank you for the postcard :)

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